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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP  Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 15:09 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13087
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: A 300+ knot Pilatus is a single pilot jet killer. I think you misspelled "TBM". No SETP is a "jet killer" any more than a Chevy is a Lexus killer. Mike C.
TBM has no lav. It needs to be Phenom 300 sized..... Like a Pilatus. No point in owning a 7 hour airplane that doesn't have a lav.
And, I do every mission a Phenom 300 does and I haul more while doing it. There's a small speed advantage to the Phenom. Hence 82 PC12's flying right now compared to 13 Phenom 300's. The shift already began years ago.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 16:27 |
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Joined: 08/05/11
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Username Protected wrote: There's a small speed advantage to the Phenom. Too funny.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 17:31 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: There's a small speed advantage to the Phenom. Too funny.
Phenom 300 costs $9MM
PC12 costs $4.9MM
Both planes are the same size and have the same range. Phenom is faster.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 17:47 |
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
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Pilatus vs Phenom. Phenom is faster period, climbs faster in both FPM and speed, goes higher +++, quieter, costs double, burns loads more fuel AND has TWO fans turning. BUT requires two pilots, ATP, lots more recurrent training. JC TBM is already a 320+ KTAS plane with six seats or less. Does have an available potty that is totally enclosed, approx $36,000. add on cost. No it is not a Pilatus and was never designed to be. I think of the Pilatus as the SUV of the sky and the TBM as the Ferrari without the nice interior... If we can strap on a 2000SHP motor on both the above singles, wow... I'd like to know what TBM's speed would be then in cruise and climb. A non engineer guess would be 360KTAS in cruise for the TBM. 
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 18:05 |
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Joined: 06/09/09
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Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Username Protected wrote: Pilatus vs Phenom. Phenom is faster period, climbs faster in both FPM and speed, goes higher +++, quieter, costs double, burns loads more fuel AND has TWO fans turning. BUT requires two pilots, ATP, lots more recurrent training. JC TBM is already a 320+ KTAS plane with six seats or less. Does have an available potty that is totally enclosed, approx $36,000. add on cost. No it is not a Pilatus and was never designed to be. I think of the Pilatus as the SUV of the sky and the TBM as the Ferrari without the nice interior... If we can strap on a 2000SHP motor on both the above singles, wow... I'd like to know what TBM's speed would be then in cruise and climb. A non engineer guess would be 360KTAS in cruise for the TBM. Since when is the Phenom 300 a two crew airplane that requires an ATP? Never heard of any jet that requires an ATP for private flights.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 18:07 |
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Joined: 04/04/14
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Location: Boonton Twp, NJ
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Username Protected wrote: Pilatus vs Phenom. Phenom is faster period, climbs faster in both FPM and speed, goes higher +++, quieter, costs double, burns loads more fuel AND has TWO fans turning. BUT requires two pilots, ATP, lots more recurrent training. JC TBM is already a 320+ KTAS plane with six seats or less. Does have an available potty that is totally enclosed, approx $36,000. add on cost. No it is not a Pilatus and was never designed to be. I think of the Pilatus as the SUV of the sky and the TBM as the Ferrari without the nice interior... If we can strap on a 2000SHP motor on both the above singles, wow... I'd like to know what TBM's speed would be then in cruise and climb. A non engineer guess would be 360KTAS in cruise for the TBM. Since when is the Phenom 300 a two crew airplane that requires an ATP? Never heard of any jet that requires an ATP for private flights.
No, but all type rating check rides are done to ATP standards, and some people frankly can't meet them.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 18:12 |
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Location: Indiana
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Erwin, Sorry I assumed two pilots and I see it is not. However the type rating is to ATP standards. Can't drill down to see if that means you will receive it after the training or not. Plane is Part 23. http://floridaflightcenter.com/product/ ... pe-rating/Seven days. Seems short to me.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 18:20 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Pilatus vs Phenom. Phenom is faster period, climbs faster in both FPM and speed, goes higher +++, quieter, costs double, burns loads more fuel AND has TWO fans turning. BUT requires two pilots, ATP, lots more recurrent training. JC TBM is already a 320+ KTAS plane with six seats or less. Does have an available potty that is totally enclosed, approx $36,000. add on cost. No it is not a Pilatus and was never designed to be. I think of the Pilatus as the SUV of the sky and the TBM as the Ferrari without the nice interior... If we can strap on a 2000SHP motor on both the above singles, wow... I'd like to know what TBM's speed would be then in cruise and climb. A non engineer guess would be 360KTAS in cruise for the TBM. Phenom doesn't require 2 pilots. It's a single pilot airplane. 2 engines turning is meaningless. It's an emotional thing. Considering ATC dictates speed and altitude I haven't found a great time savings at all of the Phenom vs. PC12 unless you're talking 1000+ mile trips West bound.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 18:21 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Erwin, Sorry I assumed two pilots and I see it is not. However the type rating is to ATP standards. Can't drill down to see if that means you will receive it after the training or not. Plane is Part 23. http://floridaflightcenter.com/product/ ... pe-rating/Seven days. Seems short to me. Keep the debate about "performance". Training has nothing to do with the cost to buy the airplane.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 19:35 |
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Joined: 09/05/12
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Username Protected wrote: TBM has no lav. It needs to be Phenom 300 sized..... Like a Pilatus. No point in owning a 7 hour airplane that doesn't have a lav.
Can get one now http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article ... d_8MVu3yCgUnclear on price of the PTT option with the lav.
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Last edited on 12 Oct 2017, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 19:36 |
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Joined: 09/05/09
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Username Protected wrote: TBM has no lav. It needs to be Phenom 300 sized..... Like a Pilatus. No point in owning a 7 hour airplane that doesn't have a lav.
the 910/930 has a flushing Lav, with an electronic hard-shell enclosure (still no comparison to the PC12 though...)
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 19:37 |
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Joined: 04/04/14
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Username Protected wrote: 2 engines turning is meaningless. It's an emotional thing.
Thats what I tell myself also. 
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 22:05 |
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Username Protected wrote: 2 engines turning is meaningless. It's an emotional thing.
It might have become emotional if I didn't have the second one when my first one quit turning! To the contrary, one jet engine is emotional.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 13 Oct 2017, 01:09 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: And, I do every mission a Phenom 300 does and I haul more while doing it. Nobody is sitting around trying to decide between buying a PC12 and Phenom 300. That's like trying to decide between a Ford Econoline van and a stretch limo. Two very different customer profiles. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP Posted: 13 Oct 2017, 02:28 |
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Joined: 02/26/11
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Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Username Protected wrote: Nobody is sitting around trying to decide between buying a PC12 and Phenom 300.
That's like trying to decide between a Ford Econoline van and a stretch limo.
Two very different customer profiles.
Mike C. His point is that you have to get to the 300 at 9MM to match the abilities of the PC-12 with a jet. That says a lot.
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