I think the practical impact of this is that you don't often need deice above FL300, and below FL300, there is enough power to deice and climb. If you do need deice at high altitude, then you may have to descend to both get more power and to get out of the icing layer.

At FL300, ISA is -44C, so even at ISA+20, icing would not be common. If you get icing at high altitude, that means the temperatures are wicked high (ISA+30 or more?) and you probably can't fly up there anyway just from that.

For the Citation V, climb rate at ISA+10 (-32C), FL290, 14K lbs is 1623 FPM, turn on deice and this falls to 1375 FPM. Noticeable, but you still have 85% of your climb rate, so operationally probably not a game changer.

Mike C.

In the Mustang, the performance difference with anti-ice on is very small. No manhole cover here.

Hopefully all jets are better than that Merlin IIIB that tried to fly us into a mountain because it couldn't shed ice and climb at the same time!

According to FlightAware, the Mustang is not exactly a performer to begin with. There is one today filed at 340 kts ture and only climbing 2600 fpm out of KLIT. It is almost a jet!

I've been looking into the Mustang. The cost/NM is about the same as my Navajo going almost twice as fast. It won't work for many of my trips, but a dry lease is attractive for a second ship.

Not fast compared to a Lear, not great when hot - but a heck of a deal overall.

When I looked at Mustang, it just didn't carry what I needed. The C90 I have will carry eight including crew with full fuel. The Mustang had just a bit better range, but not much more, went higher and 100 knots faster, but I could only carry about a 600 pound payload when going farther. Closer in, the numbers weren't that much better than taking the C90. Of course, capital cost was much more than the legacy C90.
That's what pushed me to the Citation II with gross weight increase. Capital cost for the legacy bird isn't much more than the C90, but 100 knots faster, good 1,100 NM range with a payload of near 1,000 pounds (9 total seats). It seems, if one is carrying three or four folks, not much stuff, and going up to 1,000 NM, the Mustang seems great if one wants a newer, more dependable bird. To carry more payload and go the same distance, I had to go to the Citation II or V. Of course, there's always something that goes faster, carries more and costs more. I'm sitting in the legacy jet cheap seats

You have any more details on this Chip?

I've been in mountain areas from Peru to Colorado and never had a problem with icing in the Merlin, nothing the boots could not shed in auto mode.


Planes don't fly themselves into mountains, but pilots have been known too when the seven P's are at work.

You have any more details on this Chip?

I've been in mountain areas from Peru to Colorado and never had a problem with icing in the Merlin, nothing the boots could not shed in auto mode.


Planes don't fly themselves into mountains, but pilots have been known too when the seven P's are at work.

Although some may feel that way about the Mustang, I'm sure enjoying mine. It fits my mission perfectly, and I'm comfortable with cruise TAS of 330-350kts. Climb rates vary from 2500-4000 depending on temps and weight. I'm comfortable with that, too. BTW, it really is a jet, even if it's just a single-pilot, docile, fun one.

It was definately pilot misjudgement, we had been trapped in Provo, Utah by the weather and about noon on our second day a nice big hole opened up and we went for it. We did not account for the fact that several airliners were thinking the same thing... and of course that the hole might diassapear alltogether. This was about 15 years ago, I was sitting in the right seat, and had all of about 5 hours in a 172. I worked the deice equipment while the pilot focused in flying the airplane. This was not light icing, we were in the crap, and once there and considering the peaks around us doing a 180 didn't seem practical.

We were trying to gain enough altitude to clear the terrain and had to turn everything off to get enough power to climb, then as the ice built up I'd activate the boots and pop the layer off... with everything on we would actually decend.

Just about the time we figured we had made a fatal mistake, we broke out and it was clear and sunny. You could hear chunks of ice breaking off and hitting the horizontal... and we could care less.

Our joy didn't last long... within a few minutes we flew right back into it. It was as bad or worse than before. I'm sure those seats still have wrinkles from the squeeze.

We finally broke out and were in the clear... never again.

Flying in weather is ok.
Flying at night is ok.
Flying in the mountains is ok.

Avoid combining any of the above.

I remember operating switches, but like I said it was 15 years ago... I wasn't then and am not now a Merlin pilot... and it was a very stressful situation. I may have been staring out the window at the boots saying "oh crap" "oh crap"

If you are insinuating that I made up the story you are more than welcome to call Ron Farish, he was the pilot. The airplane was T-311 and if I remember right the registration number was N95964.

Ron bought the airplane at auction from the DEA... but if you look it up you'll say that he bought it from Lindsey Aviation Services...

Then you have to google Lindsey Aviation Services...

Some things aren't as they seem... and sometimes it's just poor memory.

Presidential candidates should be vetted through Beechtalk! Let's see how Trump handles you guys!

They saws and hammers would be busy building the gallows if political candidates were vetted here ! :

Chip, I am not insinuating that you made up the story. I don't doubt for a minute that you made the trip with Ron. Looking back at your statement I assume your where more telling what happened than insinuating that Merlin's are bad in icing.

We are all getting really, really big private jets and Airbus is paying for it.