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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 23:32 
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I have a number of midwest/east coast meetings this week. The Citation I had been flying was unavailable so I plan to use a Michigan based 550 which I have a dry lease on. A 550 is a 550 except the panels. In this case the FMS is a KLN90B with a KMD850 as a multifunction display. First leg was to fly from KIMT (Iron Mtn, MI) to Marquette (KSAW). Just a 50 mile trip. I had hoped to do it VFR but there was convective activity in the way so I filed. The aircraft had 1200 lbs of fuel but since I was filed for 7,000 consumption was going to be high. I get fuel at $2.00 a gallon at KSAW and it is $4.50 at KIMT. Hmmm. My concern was weather and if I had to miss and return to KIMT. So I added 100 gallons.

Solid preflight complete; I launched. As I leveled at 7,000 I got a vector and decent to 3600 to join the ILS 01. The tower was reporting 300 over 1/2 in fog. Hmmm. Been awhile since I had flown this aircraft. ILS to minimums was not what i had in mind. Setting up the ILS and adding waypoints to KLN90B. Out of nowhere I lost my ability to transmit or receive. KSAW tower was giving me weather and it faded out. This was comm 1 & 2 and the hand mic as well. So now here I am about to intercept the ILS to minimums single pilot in a low tech 550. I am VMC however. What should I do?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 23:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have a number of midwest/east coast meetings this week. The Citation I had been flying was unavailable so I plan to use a Michigan based 550 which I have a dry lease on. A 550 is a 550 except the panels. In this case the FMS is a KLN90B with a KMD850 as a multifunction display. First leg was to fly from KIMT (Iron Mtn, MI) to Marquette (KSAW). Just a 50 mile trip. I had hoped to do it VFR but there was convective activity in the way so I filed. The aircraft had 1200 lbs of fuel but since I was filed for 7,000 consumption was going to be high. I get fuel at $2.00 a gallon at KSAW and it is $4.50 at KIMT. Hmmm. My concern was weather and if I had to miss and return to KIMT. So I added 100 gallons.

Solid preflight complete; I launched. As I leveled at 7,000 I got a vector and decent to 3600 to join the ILS 01. The tower was reporting 300 over 1/2 in fog. Hmmm. Been awhile since I had flown this aircraft. ILS to minimums was not what i had in mind. Setting up the ILS and adding waypoints to KLN90B. Out of nowhere I lost my ability to transmit or receive. KSAW tower was giving me weather and it faded out. This was comm 1 & 2 and the hand mic as well. So now here I am about to intercept the ILS to minimums single pilot in a low tech 550. I am VMC however. What should I do?


Go back to KIMT, or another closer airport in VMC while squawking 7600 is what I'd do.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 23:38 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14567
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
I have a number of midwest/east coast meetings this week. The Citation I had been flying was unavailable so I plan to use a Michigan based 550 which I have a dry lease on. A 550 is a 550 except the panels. In this case the FMS is a KLN90B with a KMD850 as a multifunction display. First leg was to fly from KIMT (Iron Mtn, MI) to Marquette (KSAW). Just a 50 mile trip. I had hoped to do it VFR but there was convective activity in the way so I filed. The aircraft had 1200 lbs of fuel but since I was filed for 7,000 consumption was going to be high. I get fuel at $2.00 a gallon at KSAW and it is $4.50 at KIMT. Hmmm. My concern was weather and if I had to miss and return to KIMT. So I added 100 gallons.

Solid preflight complete; I launched. As I leveled at 7,000 I got a vector and decent to 3600 to join the ILS 01. The tower was reporting 300 over 1/2 in fog. Hmmm. Been awhile since I had flown this aircraft. ILS to minimums was not what i had in mind. Setting up the ILS and adding waypoints to KLN90B. Out of nowhere I lost my ability to transmit or receive. KSAW tower was giving me weather and it faded out. This was comm 1 & 2 and the hand mic as well. So now here I am about to intercept the ILS to minimums single pilot in a low tech 550. I am VMC however. What should I do?


Go back to KIMT, or another closer airport in VMC while squawking 7600 is what I'd do.


How long do you squawk 7600? Are you still on an IFR flight plan? What altitude do you fly at? What route do you fly? Granted this is not a real busy area but there were two RJ's, a PC12 Air ambulance in the area as well as a buddy in his 441.
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Power of the Turbine
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 23:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
How long do you squawk 7600? Are you still on an IFR flight plan? What altitude do you fly at? What route do you fly? Granted this is not a real busy area but there were two RJ's, a PC12 Air ambulance in the area as well as a buddy in his 441.


You can squawk 7600 as long as you want. Might as well do it for the entire flight.

Yes you're still on an IFR flight plan. You didn't land, and you didn't cancel, so therefore you're on an IFR flight plan. NORDO doesn't cancel your flight plan.

Altitude your discretion. Route, whatever route you wish, especially in VMC, since your goal is to remain so.

Don't worry about the other traffic - when you're NORDO squawking 7600 ATC is giving you such a wide berth since they have no idea what you'll do. You won't get near other airplanes.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 23:48 
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Had you filed an alternate?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 00:00 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
Had you filed an alternate?



kimt

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 00:09 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
I just felt things were too complicated to continue. Squawked 7600 Climbed to a VFR altitude and then squawked 1200 to let them know they could change the separation stds. I finally decided to use the co-pilot PTT switch and headset. Contacted center. He said they figured it out no problem. I don't recall canceling and KIMT is not a tower facility so I take it they cancelled me as soon as a squawked 1200. Good to know. Think it was the right thing to do.

I will say using the copilot headset and PPT is more challenging that it looks. You also have to use the Copilot audio panel which is nearly unreachable. When ever he would talk i just naturally keyed the pilot PPT and talked. SO he would reask the question. Damn. It COULD get overwhelming in the case of something like a miss. Not that talking is all that important per se. You should give it a try sometime.

One other thing.....although it was VFR I broke off a pure visual approach and circled around to do a practice ILS. Got me comfortable with this aircraft again.. Landed. Got problem addressed. Took 100 more gallons. Landed at KSAW where it had improved to 300 & 3.

Really glad I added the fuel the first time around. It would have amped up the stress being low on fuel.

I love flying SP. But I did get a taste of how fast things get complicated SP in a jet. Comm problem while joining an ILS but still VFR. Low tech cockpit. IMC coming quickly. Ok....uncle..

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Mark Hangen
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Last edited on 05 Jun 2017, 00:20, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 00:11 
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I just felt things were too complicated to continue. Squawked 7600 Climbed to a VFR altitude and then squawked 1200 to let them know they could change the separation stds. I finally decided to use the co-pilot PTT switch and headset. Contacted center. He said they figured it out no problem. I don't recall canceling and KIMT is not a tower facility so I take it they cancelled me as soon as a squawked 1200. Good to know. Think it was the right thing to do.

One other thing.....although it was VFR I broke off a pure visual approach and circled around to do a practice ILS. Got me comfortable with this aircraft again.. Landed. Got problem addressed. Took 100 more gallons. Landed at KSAW where it had improved to 300 & 3.

Really glad I added the fuel the first time around. It would have amped up the stress being low on fuel.


Great outcome and great decision making.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 06:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
I just felt things were too complicated to continue. Squawked 7600 Climbed to a VFR altitude and then squawked 1200 to let them know they could change the separation stds. I finally decided to use the co-pilot PTT switch and headset. Contacted center. He said they figured it out no problem. I don't recall canceling and KIMT is not a tower facility so I take it they cancelled me as soon as a squawked 1200. Good to know. Think it was the right thing to do.

One other thing.....although it was VFR I broke off a pure visual approach and circled around to do a practice ILS. Got me comfortable with this aircraft again.. Landed. Got problem addressed. Took 100 more gallons. Landed at KSAW where it had improved to 300 & 3.

Really glad I added the fuel the first time around. It would have amped up the stress being low on fuel.


Great outcome and great decision making.

Agree!
Fly the plane!
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 06:56 
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Thanks for sharing. Quite the adventure for such a short and simple flight.

Have you found the reason for the comm issues?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 07:36 
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Mark, good job for a good outcome. I believe you did the right thing.

§ 91.185 IFR operations: Two-way radio communications failure.
(a)General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each pilot who has two-way radio communications failure when operating under IFR shall comply with the rules of this section.

(b)VFR conditions. If the failure occurs in VFR conditions, or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, each pilot shall continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable.

(c)IFR conditions. If the failure occurs in IFR conditions, or if paragraph (b) of this section cannot be complied with, each pilot shall continue the flight according to the following:

(1)Route.

(i) By the route assigned in the last ATC clearance received;

(ii) If being radar vectored, by the direct route from the point of radio failure to the fix, route, or airway specified in the vector clearance;

(iii) In the absence of an assigned route, by the route that ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance; or

(iv) In the absence of an assigned route or a route that ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance, by the route filed in the flight plan.

(2)Altitude. At the highest of the following altitudes or flight levels for the route segment being flown:

(i) The altitude or flight level assigned in the last ATC clearance received;

(ii) The minimum altitude (converted, if appropriate, to minimum flight level as prescribed in § 91.121(c)) for IFR operations; or

(iii) The altitude or flight level ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance.

(3)Leave clearance limit.

(i) When the clearance limit is a fix from which an approach begins, commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the expect-further-clearance time if one has been received, or if one has not been received, as close as possible to the estimated time of arrival as calculated from the filed or amended (with ATC) estimated time en route.

(ii) If the clearance limit is not a fix from which an approach begins, leave the clearance limit at the expect-further-clearance time if one has been received, or if none has been received, upon arrival over the clearance limit, and proceed to a fix from which an approach begins and commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the estimated time of arrival as calculated from the filed or amended (with ATC) estimated time en route.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 07:54 
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Total neophyte here, in comparison with you guys.
I was taught: fly the plan filed and were cleared for.
In this case: go missed and fly to the alternate?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 08:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
Total neophyte here, in comparison with you guys.
I was taught: fly the plan filed and were cleared for.
In this case: go missed and fly to the alternate?

If you were already in IMC, then yes. In this case Mark was still VMC, so § 91.185(b) applies.

You wouldn't get into trouble for continuing as filed, but legally and practically Mark's choice was the best available.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 11:44 
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Yes, I've had that happen twice, IFR flight plan but visual. Once, tower contacted me on the VOR and had me iden to acknowledge and brought me in VFR. Once, I used co-pilot's headset as Mark did. Didn't change my squawk as I still had contact, but I wasn't trying to do an ILS to near minimums. In each case I got in visually.

Great job. Luckily, I've never been faced with that IMC.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 14:42 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Re 91.185. So my intuition was correct. That's good. Trying to remember 91.185 was not second nature given all that was going on. Not mush mind per se but your mind doesn't recall things as easily when $hit be going down.

Had this been KORD mush mind was not out of the question. Think of the Ripple effect of norad on a low IFR but still Vmc. Think breaking out of that conga line might be stressful? Especially in a jet?

Another comment...the copilot headset wasn't plugged in. Problem is there are spring loaded metal covers over the sockets. You also can't see how big each plug is. So imagine reaching across the copilot seat to the right side armrest. Lifting the cover and plugging the jack in. Can't be done one handed. Can't be done by feel. Short answer is if headset isn't plugged in a simple fix becomes a cluster.

Why weren't they plugged in? It is mostly flown SP. who woulda thunk it?

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Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


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