I'm on Traxxall Aviator for my Citation V.

Start ed as Sierratrax, was $1200/year. Then got sold to JSSI, now called Traxxall Aviator, $1800/year and I expect them to keep jacking prices.

It is mostly just a web spreadsheet with a few bits of logic and file management around it. If they get too expensive, then the market is ripe for another company to come in and undercut, just like Sierratrax did. There really is no barrier to entry here.

Mike C.

Agree. The Piaggio subscription cost is more than what you quoted, so there seems to be some element of aircraft specific nature to it. But bottom line was Traxxall was between 1/3 and 1/4 the cost of CAMP. One thing both do, which is useful, is provide service bulletins and mx manual pages for the various tasks. So as new stuff gets added I can often download new SBs or MM manual pages and the like. CAMP actually made it a little easier to do that IMO, but I can mostly get it done with Traxxall too.

What is it with blue juice and human urine that absolutely destroys an aircraft with aluminum cancer?

Granted, capillary action and pressurization cycles are a beast for ensuring that crap gets into every crack and crevice...

There was a BT story about a relief tube that backflowed when the aircraft landed but I can't find it. YUCK!

As expected since saying anything else would contradict your assumed expert status and predilection to spend your client's money.
Mike C.

That capability is not evident in my Traxxall system.

It may be a function of how the OEM allows their docs to be accessed.

Mike C.

No, you are not wrong. SpaceX in particular has gotten huge amounts of government money to do things better and cheaper than ULA. Our space program and our economy would be way worse off without what Elon has inspired (not just at SpaceX, but throughout the new space economy. Ask me how I know)

They are already paying you, so there is a self selection process going on here.

$30K pays for a lot of repairs.

Stevens is one of those places that thinks "airworthy" means "looks like new" so it is easy to find lots of things they think need repair on a 30+ year old airplane which actually don't. I am aware of a case where a tiny spot of surface corrosion on a gear leg was squawked as needing to replace the gear leg. Any sane mechanic would clean, prime, and paint the spot and be done with it. So a $150 repair became a $250,000 gear leg replacement. Not my kind of shop, needless to say.

I'm happy to take my plane to any shop for a prebuy, but when they produce the squawk list, I reserve the right to take the airplane back to my mechanic and have him review, address, and sign off the fix. I then have an airworthy aircraft presented to the buyer. If they don't accept that, they can walk and lose their deposit.

Mike C.

They are already paying you, so there is a self selection process going on here.

$30K pays for a lot of repairs.

Stevens is one of those places that thinks "airworthy" means "looks like new" so it is easy to find lots of things they think need repair on a 30+ year old airplane which actually don't. I am aware of a case where a tiny spot of surface corrosion on a gear leg was squawked as needing to replace the gear leg. Any sane mechanic would clean, prime, and paint the spot and be done with it. So a $150 repair became a $250,000 gear leg replacement. Not my kind of shop, needless to say.

I'm happy to take my plane to any shop for a prebuy, but when they produce the squawk list, I reserve the right to take the airplane back to my mechanic and have him review, address, and sign off the fix. I then have an airworthy aircraft presented to the buyer. If they don't accept that, they can walk and lose their deposit.

Mike C.

An owner confiding in me about their experience there.


Citation V.

Mike C.

They are already paying you, so there is a self selection process going on here.

An owner confiding in me about their experience there.


Citation V.

Mike C.

They already are paying someone claiming to be an expert, and so they will follow their advice.

In other words, your data about buyers asking for a prebuy when they already paid you to say that to them is self selected.


Was the aircraft unairworthy?

Doesn't sound like it, sounds like it was repaired and airworthy.


Unless the contract explicitly states the aircraft is warranted to have no damage history, which I doubt, then the seller obligations are to deliver an airworthy aircraft, no more.

The idea of "no damage history" is legally vague. Exactly what is "damage"? This is why purchase agreements usually don't include that term since it is subject to wide and unclear interpretation.


So you shook down a seller who delivered an airworthy aircraft? Is that your service?

I would have said the aircraft is airworthy so take it or walk.

Mike C.

They serve a market. The customers just need to know what they ground rules are. They will try to make the plane basically new. There are customers who want that and will pay for it. And there are those who won't.


He actually owns and operates these planes, so yes, I believe him over someone who doesn't. I saw the estimate.

The Textron price for the gear leg was well over $200K. This was a few years back.

Mike C.

They already are paying someone claiming to be an expert, and so they will follow their advice.

In other words, your data about buyers asking for a prebuy when they already paid you to say that to them is self selected.


Was the aircraft unairworthy?

Doesn't sound like it, sounds like it was repaired and airworthy.


Unless the contract explicitly states the aircraft is warranted to have no damage history, which I doubt, then the seller obligations are to deliver an airworthy aircraft, no more.

The idea of "no damage history" is legally vague. Exactly what is "damage"? This is why purchase agreements usually don't include that term since it is subject to wide and unclear interpretation.


So you shook down a seller who delivered an airworthy aircraft? Is that your service?

I would have said the aircraft is airworthy so take it or walk.

Mike C.