That keeps being said, but I never said they discount them, assuming a late model King Air, the inventory dealers I know, won’t buy them at all.

The whole time we've been referring to Pennman's 6k HSI at Covington, vs what I'm told to expect 30-40k sending my engine to Pratt for the HSI, which will be due in a year.

The whole time we've been referring to Pennman's 6k HSI at Covington, vs what I'm told to expect 30-40k sending my engine to Pratt for the HSI, which will be due in a year.

I don't believe that you're paying 30k more for reputation, no way. If so, that's insane and I'm 100% with Pennman. Stupid.

I suspect there are differences in the work that's being performed. I'm told if I send the engine to Pratt, they're going to replace a bunch of stuff with new, and that those parts account for the vast majority of the cost difference. The reputation comes in because people know they do this, and assign a greater value to the plane that had all the new parts put in by Pratt.

To be clear they have never bought airplanes without DDOF overhauls based on very real concerns of what components were used in the overhauls.

Now, in recent history... very recent... Covington has leveraged their AG DDOF to the PT6A and so far these dealers are unaware of that... or at least were until I told them.

They are investing millions in used aircraft, they’re just risk adverse.

That’s why I asked, bad info here... I tried to address it but I think it was drowned out by this shop is better than that one.

$6500 is the inspection only, it is very rare to open a big Pratt and not have to fix anything, but if you can just open it and close it back up... $6500 is about right.

The $30k was for a maintenance facility to pull the Hot Section and ship it somewhere. That’s obviously the expensive way to do it, the shop is being paid for labor, shipping and insurance, plus profit.

No matter who does your Hot what needs to be fixed will have to be fixed. It could be $25k in repairs or $250k in repairs, all depends.

What kind of engine and how many hours?

You asked a question, I am trying to answer it. I wasn't going to go back through all these pages to see what engine it is. To take an educated guess at what an HSI event might cost I needed to know what engine and HOW MANY HOURS... I could have asked first Hot or second, which is really what I'm asking. I had to ask the second question anyway, so it was just as easy to ask both.

The $30k isn't to remove and ship the engine, it is to remove it, have the Hot Section Inspection done and reinstall it. I said that earlier but jeez matey, you really don't listen!

To answer your question every way possible, I'll say it this way. If it's the first hot and you don't have anything major to replace, I would budget $25k - $50k if you need CT Vane ring or blades it's going to be more.

If it's the second run HSI I would budget $100k, but again if you start replacing CT blades it will be more. Then of course there's combustion liners, large and small exit ducts... all kinds of things that big Pratts like to eat.

If Penman got by for $6500 that is almost unheard of.

Sorry I thought this was clear from the beginning. Pennman said the Pilatus was cheap to run on par or not much more than the m600 and posted his Pilatus HSI of $6500. I replied I was told the expect 30-40k and all the ensuing Covington/Pratt/Dallas discussion sprang from there. You were saying that the reason for the difference was the shop pedigree, and value at resale..

Anyways I still don't think the install/reinstall and inspection alone is 30-40k. There is more to it. I'd like to compare apples to apples. The engine R&R and crating, shop pedigree accounts for a few AMU's of it I'm sure, but not 20k+... doesn't compute. it's a first run engine that's been babied.

I wasn't saying the difference was pedigree and resale, I was saying it was the related cost and the maintenance facility's profit. The big names probably charge $15k to do the inspection, but I'll be the first to say I really don't know what it cost to do just the inspection, we always plan for and know there will be more.

I suspect that the $30k to $40k with "nothing wrong" probably means "not much wrong" and they're probably replacing segments and doing other stuff they justify as preventative.

I'll get you some real world numbers Monday, I can call Standard and they'll tell me what the last 3 or 4 -67 HSI's ran.

yes that's what I suspect too. I would like to know what those preventative things are, and why Pratt believes they are a good idea. Would also be curious what they say about a 6.5k PC12 HSI from Covington.

And sometimes the attorney that has been in business for decades has outlived his usefulness and is just relying on his reputation to carry him through, whereas the younger attorney that has spent only ten years or so sharpening his axe is on top of his game running circles around everyone else.

Sometimes those old businesses get lazy. I'm not saying that's the case here, but simply relying on a name is often unproven.

Bottom line is that it's seems like a cowboy biz. Can't get a straight answer outta anyone, can't get a real cost because everyone's hiding stuff. From the lack of any useful numbers in any given PT6 thread ever created (go back and look and see if you can find a single itemized OH break down in any thread since beginning of BT), I can only conclude that most owners have been either:

1. taken to the cleaners and they don't want to lose face.
2. or signed some shady NDA preventing them from talking about it.

I get that. However, it’s a matter of determining who the best attorneys really are. Sometimes it’s not always the old guys with big names.

There’s Pratt, Dallas, StandardAero, then Covington the “new” DDOF... then Prime... then everyone else.

I’m impressed that Covington has made the leap to DDOF status, when Standard bought Vector that cut your options to three DDOF shops, I think it’s basically an open secret now that Standard is trying to buy DallasAirmotive, which cuts it back again.

I wish Prime would go the DDOF route, great company and they stand behind their work.

I lived through a time when nefarious things happened in engine overhaul facilities. It’s better now, but still happens and that is why buyers, especially of later model aircraft are scared of “grey” shop engines.

It’s not just about quality, but the components as well, i.e. what did they throw away in the engine. There was a broker in Florida who would buy airplanes with Garrett engines, do the hots, steal all the good parts out of the engine, replace them with cycle limited parts and sell the airplane with fresh hots. No one thought to look that closely at a turboprop engine event.

I’ve always been hesitant to tell stories like this because some people on here accuse me of using scare tactics to attract clients. I hope you all know by now that I really do care about aircraft owners and want to help everyone of you avoid the pitfalls I’ve observed in the last 30 years in aviation. Most folks are involved in a handful of aircraft transactions in their lives, I’ve been involved in hundreds.

My advice on engine shops is worth what you paid for it. Everyone has an opinion. Same with maintenance facilities.

Late to the party.

One significant issue in Covington's prices is probably it's overhead and profit expectations.

I live in Mississippi. We sell ourselves as the place you come when you want the wages and regulatory environment of Bangladesh, right here in America.

Tunica's nicer since the casino's came in, but it used to be where 60 Minutes went to show big-eyed, half-naked starving children. Who maybe weren't going to school because MS didn't have a compulsory attendance law until the 80's.

But I digress. You can explain a significant price difference in an HSI based on the business conditions in rural MS vs urban anywhere else USA