BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 15:41

Username Protected wrote:

Besides the SJ30.

Mach 0.83, 486 knots, range 2500 nm, ceiling FL490.

Also, CJ4 is a touch more range than a PC-24, and only 2 knots slower.

Mike C.

SJ30=vaporware

Amazing I never see CJ4's.

Also, don't check Flightaware at 9PM at night. It's not accurate.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 15:48

Username Protected wrote:

I see CJ3's and CJ4's everywhere. I think we have a bias to 'spot' what we fly.

While the PC-24 is nice, I don't see it as game changing. I have yet to experience the need to carry a pallet at light jet speeds, but maybe some do.

I believe the real 'game changing' light jet is going to come with range. There is a huge gap between 2,000 mile and 3,000 mile range birds. The next step up from a 14,000lb CJ3+ is a 30,000+lb sovereign. We could really use a 'light' jet that can fly two pax 3,000nm at light jet hourly rates. The ability to go transcon both directions in all winds, hawaii from west coast and europe from the northeast would be a huge change in capability. Oh and an APU

The "micro" gulfstream I guess.

I see CJ3's everywhere too. I never mentioned those. CJ4 is what I said. Textron hasn't sold many CJ4 so Unless you're hanging around outside the factory I'm not sure where you're seeing them.

What we "need" is the 30Klb Soverieng to be single pilot. Hell, I'd be happy if they'd make the XLS single pilot.... It's the perfect single pilot airplane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 15:53

Username Protected wrote:

I see CJ3's and CJ4's everywhere. I think we have a bias to 'spot' what we fly.

While the PC-24 is nice, I don't see it as game changing. I have yet to experience the need to carry a pallet at light jet speeds, but maybe some do.

I believe the real 'game changing' light jet is going to come with range. There is a huge gap between 2,000 mile and 3,000 mile range birds. The next step up from a 14,000lb CJ3+ is a 30,000+lb sovereign. We could really use a 'light' jet that can fly two pax 3,000nm at light jet hourly rates. The ability to go transcon both directions in all winds, hawaii from west coast and europe from the northeast would be a huge change in capability. Oh and an APU

The "micro" gulfstream I guess.

I see CJ3's everywhere too. I never mentioned those. CJ4 is what I said. Textron hasn't sold many CJ4 so Unless you're hanging around outside the factory I'm not sure where you're seeing them.

What we "need" is the 30Klb Soverieng to be single pilot. Hell, I'd be happy if they'd make the XLS single pilot.... It's the perfect single pilot airplane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 16:05

Username Protected wrote:

I believe the real 'game changing' light jet is going to come with range. There is a huge gap between 2,000 mile and 3,000 mile range birds. The next step up from a 14,000lb CJ3+ is a 30,000+lb sovereign. We could really use a 'light' jet that can fly two pax 3,000nm at light jet hourly rates. The ability to go transcon both directions in all winds, hawaii from west coast and europe from the northeast would be a huge change in capability. Oh and an APU

Agreed. SP 3000nm range is the one market nobody covers.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 17:23

Username Protected wrote:

Flying jets single pilot isn't within our risk tolerance, I can easily live without that.

The just go buy an XLS.... the jet you desire already exists.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 18:01

Username Protected wrote:

Textron hasn't sold many CJ4

Open your eyes.

Textron has delivered ~270 CJ4s as of last count.

Pilatus has only taken 84 orders for the PC-24 and delivered 2 of them.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 18:07

Username Protected wrote:

SP 3000nm range is the one market nobody covers.

To go 3000 nm you need lots of fuel, which means a heavy, large airplane. You can't certify something SP above 19,000 lbs. So the rules essentially prevent it from existing.

It really doesn't make sense to have a 3000 nm SP jet. A single pilot sitting in the left seat for 8+ hours isn't realistic.

The longest range SP jet I know of is the SJ30 at 2500 nm. A close second is a Williams converted S550 with an SPE, about 2400 nm. Most of the CJ series is in the 1500-1800 nm class.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 18:17

Username Protected wrote:

Textron hasn't sold many CJ4

Open your eyes.

Textron has delivered ~270 CJ4s as of last count.

Pilatus has only taken 84 orders for the PC-24 and delivered 2 of them.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 19:51

Username Protected wrote:

It really doesn't make sense to have a 3000 nm SP jet. A single pilot sitting in the left seat for 8+ hours isn't realistic.

The longest range SP jet I know of is the SJ30 at 2500 nm. A close second is a Williams converted S550 with an SPE, about 2400 nm. Most of the CJ series is in the 1500-1800 nm class.

Mike C.

I keep hearing this all the time, "how nobody want to sit in a aircraft seat for more than 3hrs" bla bla. I do. The reality is you can't go from NY to LA direct in any SP jet. And that's just lame and sad. Trust me, there is a market for that. Also, you could design a 3000nm jet and stay under 12500lbs. Empty tanks don't weight a thing. As long as it could do max range carrying 2-4 people they'd have a market.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 19:53

I agree.... I'll fly 7 hours non stop if it gets me coast to coast without dealing with TSA.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 23:27

Username Protected wrote:

I keep hearing this all the time, "how nobody want to sit in a aircraft seat for more than 3hrs" bla bla. I do.

You would fly single pilot for 8 hours straight, non stop, and be in a condition to handle an approach to minimums?

We're not talking 3 hours here.

Quote:

The reality is you can't go from NY to LA direct in any SP jet.

There are a few that get close, but even that is 5-6 hours, not 8 that 3000 nm would require.

Quote:

Also, you could design a 3000nm jet and stay under 12500lbs.

Go ahead, start your own company and do it. You will quickly learn it isn't as easy as you think.

Quote:

Empty tanks don't weight a thing.

Yeah, they do, they weigh a lot because they have to be structurally sound enough to carry the full weight when full. This also applies to the wing structure, the landing gear, the brakes, and then we need more engine to push that around which needs more fuel, and so on. The weights and size of the airplane grows exponentially as you try to increase the range since things feed on themselves.

Quote:

As long as it could do max range carrying 2-4 people they'd have a market.

S550 with Williams can carry 2-4 people full fuel, and then fly 2400 nm.

Not many were so modified, however, so the market isn't that strong.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Mar 2018, 23:43

Username Protected wrote:

Let’s go kiteboarding!

KB and I have new liquid force kites at tRide. Just ordered me a new board.

http://www.boardpro.net/twin-tip

KB, Dunc and I are ready.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Mar 2018, 08:46

Username Protected wrote:

We're not talking 3 hours here.

LA to NY is 5 hrs. That's really not that long. That should be within the realm of the possible.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Mar 2018, 08:55

Username Protected wrote:

You would fly single pilot for 8 hours straight, non stop, and be in a condition to handle an approach to minimums?

We're not talking 3 hours here.

First, at 400 knots it doesn't take 8 hours to go coast to coast.

2nd.... Yes, I could easily fly 8 hours and land. Take off at 8am and you're landing at 4pm.... what's the big deal? Watch a couple movies... eat lunch. You know what the weather will be at your destination long before you arrive. If it's socked in you can always land early.

3rd.... I fly 6.5 hours all the time in the Pilatus. I'm sure a new jet with 3000 miles range would be more comfortable than my Pilatus.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Mar 2018, 09:15

Some people are probably different. It does not take much bandwidth to fly on AP up in the flight levels. Not much happening. I like to listen to Xm. I drink plenty to avoid dehydration and pack plenty of snacks. I even read aviation relevant material, just being sure to keep an instrument scan. I don't read in IMC, but it is rarely IMC in the FL's. Planning and flying stops is way more work, and statistically way more risk.

PC24 Now Certified