If you add up all the training time, all the driving to the airport, pre-flight, keeping the plane in shape, all the mental time wasted here and in other aviation-related ways, and put that next to your hours saved on piston trips vs. driving? It's not gonna be a huge time savings for most. You may be different than most pilots.

You fly a Pilatus now - which changes the equation, but according to you it's still a clown plane - which speaks more to my point about many people not wanting to spend millions to fly behind props regardless of actual utility.

I love flying - my life is vastly improved by flying - but it's hard to argue for on a purely financial or practical basis. For my passengers on the other hand - it's awesome - though they never seem agree. I'd be better off chartering most likely - and that's egregious.

How many hours do you save a year?

That is a horrible mission for the SF50.

KTEB to KCGS is 173 nm. Block fuel flow is probably around 110 GPH for that short a leg. You save only a few minutes over an SR22 on that route.

That's not a jet mission profile, not even for a cripple jet.

Mike C.

Yet people fly it all the time in anything from netjets to gulfstreams. Once you have the jet, you dont charter a SR22 to cover a <200nm trip. Just bought amtrak tickets for my wife from DC to Atlantic City. With the jetling and a pilot this would be a 40min trip right from my town.

That is a horrible mission for the SF50.

KTEB to KCGS is 173 nm. Block fuel flow is probably around 110 GPH for that short a leg. You save only a few minutes over an SR22 on that route.

That's not a jet mission profile, not even for a cripple jet.

Mike C.

My typical trip :

PHX to ABQ.

Flying :
8 hours on site
3 hours RT in one day ($450/hr all in)
2 rental car
Payroll for 4 pax
1 meal
Total $3,050

Driving :
8 hours on site
13 hours RT (if no snow) $125 in fuel
1 rental car for 2 days
Payroll for 4 x 2 days
4 meals
4 hotel rooms
Total: $4,225

This does not factor in losing an entire day of productivity from 4 people, only the payroll expense.

Flying is cheaper than driving and the airlines due to the factors above. Time is money.

On avg. I fly 300 hours a year which allows me to add a day of productivity 100X for 2.5 people. So its cheaper than driving and I gain 250x8 (2,000) man hours in a single year.

I was able to do the same thing in a Baron for $300/hour. This increased the direct cost savings to over $1,500/trip.

If you add up all the training time, all the driving to the airport, pre-flight, keeping the plane in shape, all the mental time wasted here and in other aviation-related ways, and put that next to your hours saved on piston trips vs. driving? It's not gonna be a huge time savings for most. You may be different than most pilots.

You fly a Pilatus now - which changes the equation, but according to you it's still a clown plane - which speaks more to my point about many people not wanting to spend millions to fly behind props regardless of actual utility.

I love flying - my life is vastly improved by flying - but it's hard to argue for on a purely financial or practical basis. For my passengers on the other hand - it's awesome - though they never seem agree. I'd be better off chartering most likely - and that's egregious.

I think you are all missing my point - I don't need to be sold on flying - and I don't think any turbo prop is a clown plane.

I'm saying for those people who would fly but don't - because they don't see the utility - the sf50 seems answer the kinds of question I get from them. When I try to sell a non-pilot on flying, they usually start excited and then get less and less excited as they dig deeper - if I could point them to the sf50 I think they would get more excited - right now, to these types of people - pistons and props seem old fashioned and current jets seem like overkill for a personal transport.

I know this is a really old post but I would love to see how you explain that a PC-12 is anywhere near the cost of flying a Bonanza. If anything, it's nearly double the cost.

Half price fuel? Are you getting bulk fuel somewhere that makes it cheaper? Jet A typically is cheaper but not half the price.

Cirrus continues to simplify.

A good example is the combined engine controls on the SR-22.

What they have REALLY simplified is staying alive when the SHTF. Look how much time the rest of us dedicate to only that.

I think Mike is Cirrus' best salesman. Their target market loves nothing more than to be told "You can't".

Those planes are selected for a mission profile much longer than 173 nm.

If it really is true that the "vast majority" of the flights are that length for those particular customers, then you don't get to use the capabilities of the jet hardly ever. You don't need pressurization, you go from SID to STAR, no cruise, always in the weather. It is effectively about 180 knots block speed, at 110 GPH. You end up burning 4+ lbs of fuel per mile.

I looked up the KTEB to KIAD route, takes about an hour no matter what you fly. Ironically, the fastest I saw was a King Air in 49 minutes. A G-IV took 1:09, 20 minutes SLOWER than the King Air, only got to 18K.

Mike C.

Yes, especially for 10 people with bags leaving at a moments notice.



Dead wrong. Pilatus is sexy as hell

List prices for Jet-A is a stupidity tax. Contract fuel prices are much lower.

Example, KAPA.

Jet list: $2.45
Jet contract: $1.79
100LL: $5.50

Example, KSRQ:

Jet list: $5.89
Jet contract: $2.46
100LL: $5.99

The price gap between Jet and 100LL continues to widen. The jet list prices are artificially high since any sane person has contract fuel options. Those who don't care what it cost and pay list help subsidize those who do care.

Mike C.

Round numbers, how much would you have to contract for that much of a discount off list?

I don't count the cost of capital in my airplane ownership. If you don't spend the money, you don't have an airplane.

I had Bonanza annuals that cost over $30K. All Bonanza's are not the same. I've never had a PC12 annual cost even half that number. Yes, I know there are cheaper ways to run a bonanza and that's fine.

I buy JetA for $2.50 a gallon a lot of the time.

Since this post I have added all my receipts for my PC12 and it came out to $1K an hour to operate. That's just dividing all expenses by the number of hours on the airframe. Some years airplane ownership is cheap. Some years it's not. Just depends.