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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2015, 21:31 
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Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Some of your examples seem to agree.


I am just stating the facts as I see them.

Quote:
Coming from the East to S. Florida the way you do is not what I've ever experienced. I'm always coming from the west and a lot of traffic is coming from the west.


I think coming down the west side of FL and then cutting over east puts you in conflict with loads of traffic over FL which forces ATC to get you lower sooner.

I asked Foreflight for routes from KPDK-KOPF and it gave SOONE-MCN-OMN-FISEL6 that is 612nm versus 522nm straight line. I don't know what your distance from the west is.

That route offshore keeps you away from weather over land that dies as it gets to the shore. Give it a try and see if they keep you higher longer.

Quote:
Coming from the South into Chicago and NYC is ridiculous. But it's busy airspace.


Agreed.

Quote:
I did Atlanta to Aspen yesterday. You should see the ridiculous route I had to fly. I did it non stop with the head wind in 5 hours even. My buddy took his Phenom 300 and did it in 4 hours even.


Fltplan.com shows two routes KPDK-ASE:

1) WETWO VUZ J41 SGF SLN HLC J80 DBL
( 1192 nm ) NOTES: NORTH ROUTE OVER DEN

2) WETWO VUZ J41 MEM RZC ICT J28 GCK LAA DBL
( 1179 nm ) NOTES: OVER ICT - SOUTH OF DEN

I don't know if there was a wind shift in the last 24 hours but today it would take me 3:33 according to fltplan.com with a 29kt headwind at FL450.

Did you get a hold at DBL or delaying vectors to get into ASE?

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2015, 21:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
My buddy took his Phenom 300 and did it in 4 hours even.


Did he have to stop?

No

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2015, 21:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don't know if there was a wind shift in the last 24 hours but today it would take me 3:33 according to fltplan.com with a 29kt headwind at FL450.

Did you get a hold at DBL or delaying vectors to get into ASE?


I'd have made it in 4:30 but for all the ATC re-routes. I'm not complaining. I love the process.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2015, 22:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
[
I'm coming from Atlanta. The routing makes me come from the West.


KATL-KOPF fltplan.com shows some folks have gotten BRAVS9.WALET MATEO OMN.FISEL6

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2015, 22:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
[
I'm coming from Atlanta. The routing makes me come from the West.


KATL-KOPF fltplan.com shows some folks have gotten BRAVS9.WALET MATEO OMN.FISEL6

Yeah. I don't get that.

I'm routed over the West coast of Floria. Over Tampa. Over APF (Naples) then a hard left turn and I fly due east into OPF. This is why I just go VFR at 17.5 if the weather permit.

They always re-route me once I'm over south Georgia.

I get 3 re-routes on every flight to TEB. I can't be the only one this happens to.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2015, 22:22 
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Oh, and halfway through Kansas they tell me "you don't have a time slot to land in Aspen and you can't go. So I argue for a while and I lose. I divert to Centennial. Once on with Denver I inquire again about going into Aspen and I tell them about my ordeal with KC Center. Denver says "I have no idea what you're talking about, proceed to Aspen".


You got caught by this - https://www.nbaa.org/ops/airspace/issues/ski-country/

Seasonal Traffic Management Details for Rocky Mountain Colorado Airports Released by FAA

Updated Dec. 3, 2015

There will, once again, be NO FAA E-STMP air traffic slot requirements for any of the Rocky Mountain airports (including Aspen/ASE, Eagle/EGE and Rifle/RIL) for the 2015-2016 holiday season. In addition, parking reservations will also not be required but, it is highly recommended that operators contact their FBO of choice prior to operation and provide arrival and departure details.

Please note, although no FAA E-STMP air traffic slots will be required during the holiday season, this will not create more capacity at any of these airports. The capacity at the airports is driven by weather conditions, aircraft parking availability and arrival and departure demand throughout the day. There will be some days when demand will exceed capacity, and the FAA will need to manage the demand utilizing a variety of traffic management initiatives (TMIs). These TMIs may include miles in trail, required routes, collaborative trajectory options programs (CTOP), ground delay programs (GDP), ground stops or airspace flow programs (AFP). Operators should plan for the possibility of diversions as well.

Additionally, operations are limited during specific portions of the day, which shortens the time available to arriving aircraft (see chart below). As an example, the table below demonstrates potential available capacity per hour to each of the airports (subject to change based on many variables).
Airport Tower Hours of Operation VFR MVFR IFR
ASE 0700L-2000L
Noise restrictions:
No Stage 1 aircraft allowed;
No Stage 2 aircraft from 30 min after sunset until 0700L;
Stage 3 aircraft: no departures 2230L – 0700L
No arrivals 2300L-0700L 14–18 12–14 10–12
EGE Dec 16 – Mar 31; 0700L – 2300L
No aircraft restrictions 14–16 12 12
RIL No ATCT, No A/C restrictions 10 8 8

Based on historical data, the likely days with the highest demand into Aspen, Eagle and Rifle for this upcoming holiday season will be Dec. 26 and 27, as well as the weekend after New Year’s Day – Jan. 2 and 3). Implementation of programs with expected departure clearance times are highly likely on these specific days.

Operators should expect similar ramp and air traffic capacity as has existed in past years at all three airports. Historically, large numbers of operators have tried to arrive late morning and early afternoon. Consideration should be given to schedule arrivals throughout the day and file flight plans as early as possible so the available capacity is utilized as much as possible and in an organized fashion.

Best Practices when GDP, AFP or CTOP are in use:

1. First and foremost, file a flight plan well in advance (i.e. the evening before). Flights that are “known demand” or already on file when a program is implemented will likely see less delay. Any flight filed after the program has already been implemented will be “pop up” demand and will automatically receive the average delay for that time period (measured in 15-minute groups) and likely additional delay as it will look for the first available time in the program after the initial average delay is assigned.

2. File an accurate departure time. If an operator misses their EDCT, they will likely be assigned additional delay.

3. Cancel a flight plan if an alternate destination is decided upon. Anyone not cancelling a flight plan will still be considered “known” demand. That will result in a “hole” being made that could have been used by another general aviation operator for that given airport.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2015, 22:24 
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Username Protected wrote:

KATL-KOPF fltplan.com shows some folks have gotten BRAVS9.WALET MATEO OMN.FISEL6

Yeah. I don't get that.

I'm routed over the West coast of Floria. Over Tampa. Over APF (Naples) then a hard left turn and I fly due east into OPF. This is why I just go VFR at 17.5 if the weather permit.

They always re-route me once I'm over south Georgia.

I get 3 re-routes on every flight to TEB. I can't be the only one this happens to.


Have you filed to go over FISEL and if given a reroute said you want to fly your planned route?
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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 00:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
I did Atlanta to Aspen yesterday.

Was that in N801PB? Not shown on Flightaware. Last flight it has it 2 weeks old, 4A9 (Fort Payne, AL) to KEGE (Eagle, CO).

Quote:
You should see the ridiculous route I had to fly.

Couldn't find it.

Quote:
My buddy took his Phenom 300 and did it in 4 hours even.

Couldn't find any Phenom 300 flight ending in KASE that match that description. Closest Phenom 300 flights were out of Laredo and Houston, nothing near Atlanta.

Is your friend's tail number blocked?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 00:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
I get 3 re-routes on every flight to TEB. I can't be the only one this happens to.

Maybe they are rerouting the turboprops to let the jets come in easily.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 09:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
Have you filed to go over FISEL and if given a reroute said you want to fly your planned route?

Yes. They aren't helpful. I'll only argue with them so much. I've heard some good arguments on the radio over florida.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 09:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
Is your friend's tail number blocked?

Mike C.

Yup. We're all blocked. Once again, I'm not trying to prove anything. You don't have to believe me. Why would I lie about my flights taking longer than they should?


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 09:50 
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I get 3 re-routes on every flight to TEB. I can't be the only one this happens to.

Maybe they are rerouting the turboprops to let the jets come in easily.

Mike C.

That would make sense til I hear all the jets dealing with the same stuff I am and being told to slow down.

The CJ2+ can be higher than most traffic. The PC12 can be lower than most traffic. But we all have to transition the same airspace to go into the same airport. Since airports are on the ground and not up in the sky all planes eventually must fly low to land.

Knowing this, as more and more planes crowd the sky I don't see how buying a plane that "must fly high" to work properly is smart decision unless all your flights are in and out of small airports or you do a lot of long distance.

The SF50 should work well low. It's not a long distance airplane. It can't hold enough fuel anyways.

Last edited on 27 Dec 2015, 10:06, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 10:00 
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Here's a thread on BT right now with guys saying what I'm saying. I'm not the only one.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116467&view=unread#unread


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 10:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
Couldn't find any Phenom 300 flight ending in KASE that match that description. Closest Phenom 300 flights were out of Laredo and Houston, nothing near Atlanta.

Is your friend's tail number blocked?

Mike C.

Here's a good one for a Phenom 300. PDK to ASE. 4 hours flight. The last hour or so of the flight was below 30K'.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EJA3 ... /KPDK/KASE


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 15:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
Here's a good one for a Phenom 300. PDK to ASE. 4 hours flight. The last hour or so of the flight was below 30K'.

And that has absolutely no bearing on the utility of an SF50.

They will never fly PDK to ASE non stop.

Mike C.

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