I took delivery of the RV-12is wing kit in September but haven't done anything other than inventory as I was waiting to see what would happen with the LCPs. All of the parts in the wing kit are green or blue. I'm content to start working on the kit now. I have some red parts in the tail that need replacing and I'll do that when it comes time, but at least I can continue on with the project.

My theory is, if you can't trust the engineers who designed the thing in the first place, you've got bigger issues than a few LC parts!

What damages do they think they can claim? “Yerhonner, we wasted a lot of time on our hobby and even after they give us new parts we have to spend even more time on our hobby.”

But for us humans time is finite. Any time lost in having to redo building the plane is lost forever, and comes out of our time that would have been used to enjoy flying while they still can, especially the older builders.

Maybe building the plane was an enjoyable hobby, but having to redo it probably is not.

Plane builders are in it for "education and recreation". This time, they're getting more education, and less recreation, than they expected.

I watched the abbreviated presentation, not the long one.

It was interesting that the fatigue cracks did not propagate from the location of the manufactured cracks. I would not have guessed that.

I did not have time for in-depth review, but I think they said they either tested with the manufactured crack at many locations around the edge of a hole or that they know where the manufactured cracks are all located and tested accordingly.

I can't help but wonder if the LCP laser start position is the same on a given hole in a given part and always oriented the same relative to the grain of the raw stock.

Me - But for us humans time is finite. Any time lost in having to redo building the plane is lost forever, and comes out of our time that would have been used to enjoy flying while they still can, especially the older builders.

Me - Maybe building the plane was an enjoyable hobby, but having to redo it probably is not.[/quote]

Eric Gleason -I get that, but how does that make it relevant to a legal claim?[/quote]

Me -Pain and suffering?

They did note that the fatigue cracks "generally" or "usually" did not emanate from the manufactured cracks. So some of them did presumably, but not enough to matter.

I suspect that the dimpled area is locally plastically deformed, so the crack tip of the manufactured crack has its energy blunted, much like if one stop-drilled a crack. It appears it was more likely for a new crack to form than for the existing one to continue propagating through the plastic zone. Which is good of course.

Clearly an engineering driven company; FWIW was unable to view the longer presentation as it came up null.

Vansairforce.net is currently down. Hope this isn’t an ongoing problem because I’ve been following various discussions concerning the Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

I assume VAF.net is an organization forum independent of the manufacturer, much akin to BT. (VAF:Vans::BT:Textron). Is that not the case?

I had the engineering analysis video on while I was working so there were a lot of details I missed, but I think I gleaned:

* Fatigue testing shows that cracks may form at other spots on a dimpled part, even if the part was already cracked as a result of laser cut holes.

* Fatigue testing showed that even if this happened, it did not shorten the lifespan of the part or the airframe

What I missed were any conclusions and changes in Van's plan or suggestions to builders. Did they say something like "you can keep building with what you have, and we'll send replacement parts if you want them"?

Eric,

Assuming I understand it -

It's not, "we'll send new parts if you want them" but more that Van's has graded some laser cut parts as "go ahead and use" and now also "disregard the dimple cracks"

versus other laser cut parts in critical locations they are saying "we'll send you replacement parts at no cost."

It appears there will be few if any parts where Van's is saying, "don't use the parts and also you have to pay full price for replacement parts."

There may be builders who say, "yeah but I want you to replace ALL laser cut parts for free" but that doesn't seem likely.

There may be some interesting effects in the secondary market for unfinished kits - where people are selling LCP that are supposed to be OK but buying new parts because they don't like to see the cracks, or they want their plane to be LCP-free. Someone might build an all LCP plane pretty cheaply if they agree there is no added risk.

It is funny you should mention that because that is the exact question I’ve been try to raise on VAF and my posts/PMs keep getting deleted without explanation. I’m done trying raise reasonable and very civil questions there and give existing builders and future owners the benefit of my larger view so I’ll present it here just this one time:


Van’s Aircraft is in serious financial and manufacturing trouble with a multitude of problems but none are greater than the laser cut parts (LCP) issue. Their continued existence is very much in question IMO.

There is very little daylight between Vans Aircraft and the VAF forum Moderators. They are all heavily invested in the RV models and scrambling for their professional lives.

Building an airplane is fraught with challenges and making it to the end is an incredible accomplishment. Current builders of RVs have decided on building RVs for a number of very good reasons but chief among them, is that it has been the quickest, cheapest and easiest route to having your own really nice, affordable and well-designed airplane.

It is all very sad because these are good people - at both places - that have been trying to do the right thing but are now faced with nothing but bad options. All of us in GA will be effected in some negative way and very few folks ( think lawyers and opportunists ) will come out ahead.

Again, it is all very sad and exhausting and I have nothing else to say on the matter. Over and out.

VAF and Vans Aircraft are 100% separate; no relation at all. No common ownership. One has no say over the other.

Nobody is deleting your PMs; the moderators can't do that. And even DR cannot really do that either. So if your PMs are getting deleted, there's something else causing it than censorship.

As far as I know, none of the Van's employees are moderators at VAF. Pretty sure I know all of them, and can't think of any moderators that also work at Van's. The moderators are heavily invested in RV models, as in most own them, but they're generally older models, and not what most would consider to be current generation RVs.

Hopefully this clears up some of your questions. And thanks for sending Charlie my way. :-)

VAF is currently redoing their website and changing to a new format.