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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2021, 14:46 
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1821
Post Likes: +1909
Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
The best light jet…..hmm….might be a turboprop :stir:

Pressure differential of 9.0
Cabin height of 5’10”. Width 6’
No type rating required
Faster than most light jets.
Very forgiving with exceptionally docile stall characteristics.
Full stand up LAV

Spousal approval

Most are currently on sale for half what they should be.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2021, 18:02 
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Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6063
Post Likes: +715
Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
These are not SP, a waiver wont work for Canada or internationally.

Im in no hurry, I will be buying when the market crash.




Username Protected wrote:
For me my next step when I decide to switch to a jet to replace the TBM would be between a CJ3+ or Phenom 300.

I went Citation V.

Will do 1200 nm in winter headwinds easily.

Excellent short field airplane. Blows me away.

Lower cost to get than your list by far.

Fully upgraded to newest Garmin glass, dual G700 TXi, dual GTN 750 Xi, GWX 75, GI 275 backup. Nice!

Don't need to be on engine, parts, labor programs to maintain it.

Can get a low utilization program that doubles major inspection intervals.

Lots of shops can work on it, don't need to be near a factory service center.

You are going to pay a TON for a CJ3+ or P300 right now.

Mike C.

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Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2021, 22:38 
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Joined: 05/08/13
Posts: 576
Post Likes: +333
Company: Citation Jet Exchange
Location: St. Louis
Aircraft: 58P C510 C525 Excel
In my experiencing managing/flying/buying/selling a fleet of various citations over the past 6 years:

Mustang wins if you want comparable costs to a turboprop, and even 421's. The hourly and annual costs have been predictable and "cheap". If it meets your mission, I'd say go for it. I have a 58P baron now for my family/business hauler, and honestly want to skip the TP stage and go right to the Mustang with some partners when the time comes.

The CJ is a great all around plane for the money. It's cheaper than the Mustang to acquire, faster and can carry more, albeit the slowest of the 525 series and more expensive to maintain than the 510.

The M2 if you need the tech and an honest 400kt cruiser.

The CJ3+ is just a beast to fly, and a pleasure to sit behind the G3000.

Feel free to ask away.

-The Citation Jet Exchange

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The Citation Jet Exchange
www.CitationJetX.com
CJs, Mustangs, Excels


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2021, 23:55 
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Joined: 08/14/13
Posts: 6410
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What’s the smallest jet with an APU?


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 00:25 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14567
Post Likes: +12362
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
What’s the smallest jet with an APU?


The smallest jet you can find and then just run the right engine. :clap:

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Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 00:49 
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Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14424
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
Username Protected wrote:
What’s the smallest jet with an APU?


The smallest jet you can find and then just run the right engine. :clap:


Found an SF50. !
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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 00:58 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20766
Post Likes: +26271
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Found an SF50. !

Not a real jet.

As to smallest jet with an APU, I think that might be the 560XL.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 01:27 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14567
Post Likes: +12362
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
Found an SF50. !

Not a real jet.

As to smallest jet with an APU, I think that might be the 560XL.

Mike C.


A two pilot jet.

Also G100. Much cheaper, faster, long range but two pilots.
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Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 07:16 
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Joined: 07/11/11
Posts: 2416
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Location: Woodlands TX
Aircraft: C525 D1K Waco PT17
Username Protected wrote:
What’s the smallest jet with an APU?

Why would you want the added cost, weight and complexity of an APU? Besides there are no SP Jets with APUs. If you want to run the AC just plug a cart.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 07:55 
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8577
Post Likes: +11124
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
The closet thing to a single pilot jet with an APU is the PC-24.

It’s accomplished by running the right engine in “quiet mode”

I suspect that technology with show up on the CJ4 soon.

I would imagine Textron will come out with the CJ4+, with a Garmin panel and Williams Quiet Power.

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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 09:08 
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Joined: 09/05/12
Posts: 698
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Location: Vero Beach, FL
Aircraft: C310R, E55P, H130T2
Username Protected wrote:
The closet thing to a single pilot jet with an APU is the PC-24.

It’s accomplished by running the right engine in “quiet mode”

I suspect that technology with show up on the CJ4 soon.

I would imagine Textron will come out with the CJ4+, with a Garmin panel and Williams Quiet Power.


Phenom P300E has that too, we don't ever use it...FBO always has a GPU for us. The "quite mode" has a limitation of 30 minutes if I recall correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 09:54 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20766
Post Likes: +26271
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
The closet thing to a single pilot jet with an APU is the PC-24.

How is that different than running the right engine on a 1970s Citation 501?

The legacy Citations have a valve in the bleed air system for the right engine, so called "GND MODE", which provides extra air for the environmental systems with the right engine running. Thus the right engine provided electrical and bleed air power like an APU would.

APUs are a lot of extra cost to maintain.

Mike C.

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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 10:05 
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8577
Post Likes: +11124
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
The closet thing to a single pilot jet with an APU is the PC-24.

How is that different than running the right engine on a 1970s Citation 501?

The legacy Citations have a valve in the bleed air system for the right engine, so called "GND MODE", which provides extra air for the environmental systems with the right engine running. Thus the right engine provided electrical and bleed air power like an APU would.

APUs are a lot of extra cost to maintain.

Mike C.


I think with the 300E that’s exactly what it is, just running at idle. With the PC-24 it’s actually running at a minimum power setting, well below idle.
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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 10:09 
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Joined: 11/18/16
Posts: 94
Post Likes: +88
Aircraft: King Air C90
Off the top of my head :

Astra, Citation 650 (3,6,7), Hawker 6/7/800, Sabre, Lear 45/75/60 (not sure about the 55?).

As for the PC24 and the right engine whisper mode - hardly innovative. Crews have been doing that on jets for decades.

Having a good APU changes the game.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2021, 10:17 
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Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 2067
Post Likes: +2164
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
There seem to be few ‘new’ ideas in aviation. Turns out engineers in 50s 60s and 70s were pretty smart.


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