BeechTalk - BT - Cessna Citation 500 Series vs Citation Jet 525 Series

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 16:18

Username Protected wrote:

It seems like this thread has run off the rails a bit. You guys might think about settling your differences via PM.

It started with a nice write up by Mark on C500 vs C525 and has somehow devolved into “my Swiss Army knife is better than your Leatherman” and vice versa. Every airplane has its pluses and minuses and every airplane has its ideal mission profile. Turbo props are great and jets are great for all kinds of reasons.

Factual information is valuable, no matter how it gets to the surface.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 16:24

Username Protected wrote:

Jeff is correct, especially on the 135 side. Passengers will sometimes flip over an unscheduled fuel stop.

Then schedule one, and they will be happy when you cancel it and go non stop.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 17:07

Username Protected wrote:

And note, we didn't make it all the way to destination that was 5.5 hours away...

I've done it a 1000 times. PC12 is a 6.5 hour airplane with reserves. Mine has 11 seats.... I only have 8 of them installed. 8 occupants isn't a heavy load for PC12.

Tradewinds aviation runs their PC12's out of St. Barth (2000' strip) with 11 seats and full fuel.

At FL280 flight time is 5.9 with a 24 knot headwind.... the fuel burn is 2300 Lbs. Easy peasy. Well within reserves.

But you do know me well.... I would never fly around with eight 180 LBS guys.... who does? But they are all adults.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 17:16

Username Protected wrote:

Customer: "That's stupid, we'll take the Sovereign."

Perfect, they paid more for more assured non stop capability.

Quote:

Schedule with a fuel stop and it will most likely never get scheduled.

You are already NOT scheduling this flight if you only schedule trips you are 100% sure will be non stop.

So what did you lose?

Nothing.

If they do select the flight with the scheduled stop, and you do it non stop, they are happy, you are happy. Only upside.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 17:24

Username Protected wrote:

.
I'm a Captain at Tradewind.

This says you're an Astronomer in the UK. How many Mikko Tuomi's are there? Ha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikko_Tuomi

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 17:29

Username Protected wrote:

This says you're an Astronomer in the UK.

This says you are pastor in Houston:

https://www.jasoncrandall.org/

Ha!

Pastors need jets, right? Isn't that what god told you?

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 17:31

Username Protected wrote:

This says you're an Astronomer in the UK.

This says you are pastor in Houston:

https://www.jasoncrandall.org/

Ha!

Pastors need jets, right? Isn't that what god told you?

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 17:50

Username Protected wrote:

Mikko Tuomi is a slightly less common name though than Jason and Mike don't you think?

If his name is one in a billion, there are approximately 8 of them on the planet.

BTW, there are 12 Tuomi folks on the FAA airmen database, including a Mikko.

I suggest you should have better evidence before insinuating someone is an impostor.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 18:00

Username Protected wrote:

Well I've flown out there full fuel with 8 on board and was off the ground in 1300 feet or so. If what you say is true then why you trying to downplay the performance of the PC12? You already know... what's the argument? Ask Bruno if the Pilatus can do it.

Fun fact: There is no fuel available in St Barth. So you can NOT take off from there with full fuel. We tanker fuel from TJSJ.

I've taken off from there many many times at MTOW. I've also had to remove bags many many times to be legal. And this with 1100lbs of fuel.
I've also overnighted there for 3 nights in a row, when wind conditions did not allow takeoff with the PC12 even when empty.

I know the performance of a PC12 pretty well. Show me a W&B calculation where you can have 8 passengers, full fuel, bags, and still be legal.

I happen to have access to the W&B of 9 12NG's, the lightest one is 6679lbs BEW.
10450lbs MTOW leaves 3771lbs for fuel and people and bags. 2700lbs fuel, 1070lbs for passengers and bags.

You fly with 100lbs avg weight people?
The Pilatus can do it. But you are overweight.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 18:01

Username Protected wrote:

.
I'm a Captain at Tradewind.

This says you're an Astronomer in the UK. How many Mikko Tuomi's are there? Ha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikko_Tuomi

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 18:04

Username Protected wrote:

I'm a Captain at Tradewind.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 18:16

Based on a just a few of Crandalls pictures, his passengers are not heavyweights!!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 18:21

Username Protected wrote:

Fun fact: There is no fuel available in St Barth. So you can NOT take off from there with full fuel. We tanker fuel from TJSJ.

Yes, I'm aware there is no fuel at TFFJ. I also tanker in fuel. I only need enough to get back to PDK. You may have done 500 flights in there. I've only done 100 or so. It takes less than 1 though to know there's no fuel sold at the airport. I think you're embellishing a little too much.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 18:26

Username Protected wrote:

Yes, I'm aware there is no fuel at TFFJ. I also tanker in fuel. I only need enough to get back to PDK. You may have done 500 flights in there. I've only done 100 or so. It takes less than 1 though to know there's no fuel sold at the airport. I think you're embellishing a little too much.

I still don't know how you are legal with full fuel, 8 passengers and bags. That was the main point. Might be possible with marginally equipped Series 9 and very small people (avg. 120lbs), but an NG, no way.

Show the numbers.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Jun 2018, 18:26

Username Protected wrote:

You fly with 100lbs avg weight people?
The Pilatus can do it. But you are overweight.

Says you. My PAX don't bring clothes to St. Barth. Don't need them. Ha. And, as you pointed out I'm landing a couple hundred pounds less on fuel since they don't sell fuel there. Once again, sounds like we're on the same page. Not sure why you're so hostile.