For an airplane in this class, saying the overhauls aren't required for part 91 is a bit misleading.

A discount for the cost of the overhaul will be reflected in the sales price when you sell. Pay now, or pay later.

If you own it through two overhaul cycles (assuming the ignored part keeps ticking, turning, or whatever it does) then the math tilts into your favor.

Agree - that is why I had them done. But it is true some people defer these and just take the discount at sell time.

One thing that kills me about the OH is several of mine were told: "beyond economic overhaul". As soon as I started to shop around for a usable part, the overhaul provider magically could overhaul it again when I didn't accept their inflated markup.

So one might be able to make the case to delay overhauls while the plane is flying and watching for parts. You could time it to get a good price without the pressure of being down. Kinda become your own stocking warehouse.

And in my example, do them all together at the D check in 600 hours. One would need to negotiate with the shop ahead of time. The shop I used charged a 25% fee for parts they didn't sell. Which is nuts and I got them to exclude it.

My point was that, using Matt's numbers, if you keep it for 15 years and skip the overhauls you've basically paid for the entire plane in savings. So even if it whacks $1M off the price you are still money ahead. Obviously this implies you keep the plane for a long time. But seriously, where do you go from an Avanti? CJ3/4 I suppose but my point being an Avanti could be one's "forever plane" in which case you don't care about sales price. Obviously inspect everything on schedule but only fix things that are broken. At least that's what I'm doing w/ my Citation.

If it's not your forever plane then yes, keep up with the overhaul schedule.

I gotta try that with my wife:

"Why are we buying an Avanti?"

"We'll save a FORTUNE!"



The logic definitely works if the parts keep working.

My point was that, using Matt's numbers, if you keep it for 15 years and skip the overhauls you've basically paid for the entire plane in savings. So even if it whacks $1M off the price you are still money ahead. Obviously this implies you keep the plane for a long time. But seriously, where do you go from an Avanti? CJ3/4 I suppose but my point being an Avanti could be one's "forever plane" in which case you don't care about sales price. Obviously inspect everything on schedule but only fix things that are broken. At least that's what I'm doing w/ my Citation.

If it's not your forever plane then yes, keep up with the overhaul schedule.

My point was that, using Matt's numbers, if you keep it for 15 years and skip the overhauls you've basically paid for the entire plane in savings. So even if it whacks $1M off the price you are still money ahead. Obviously this implies you keep the plane for a long time. But seriously, where do you go from an Avanti? CJ3/4 I suppose but my point being an Avanti could be one's "forever plane" in which case you don't care about sales price. Obviously inspect everything on schedule but only fix things that are broken. At least that's what I'm doing w/ my Citation.

If it's not your forever plane then yes, keep up with the overhaul schedule.

Take the worst case Avanti cost estimates and then compare it to whatever you can trade up to. I am assuming a trade up goes faster AND farther AND has same seat count. Fly them both for 200 hrs per year for 10 years. The Avanti wins every time, no matter what fuel cost you use. I have done the math many times.

There is NO plane that will go 1500nm non-stop, block average 350+kts (zero wind) over that leg while carrying 8 full size adults and cost less per mile than the Avanti.

As a bonus, it looks cool, the cabin is comically better than all other single pilot competition and it hand flies like a sports car. I have yet to have flown anyone in the plane that wasn't blown away by it in all respects. It truly is a unicorn (albeit one with insane bankrupt parents).

I have less invested in my plane than the depreciation I would expect in virtually anything I could replace it with. I actually spent less on my plane's original purchase than the finance costs ANNUALLY of a PC24. That really puts a thumb on the scale of long-term costs. I have been told by others that if you are running a Phenom or CJ3+ long term in part 135, there are tons of additional costs incurred vs running part 91 - hence the premium for 135 maintained planes. The Avanti is no different.

Matt - even with all the money you spent, I doubt you could could have spent the same and ended up with a 'better' plane. It's not cheap to go fast

Anthony, well said, my math shows the same exact thing, I'm hoping I don't get surprised in a bad way.

Agree also.

I like your distinction between "deferred maintenance" and "overhaul", but would make an additional qualifier and say "overhaul on time". There is often nothing good that comes of overhauling stuff just because it has hit a magical calendar age. For things that need it, inspect for corrosion on time, which is really the main thing that time (versus use) affects.

Eventually stuff breaks, stops working, or shows its age in wear or whatever. Some stuff may need overhaul or replacement on condition. Definitely fix that stuff! I hate stuff that doesn't work properly. But there are a lot of parts that are spec'd for overhaul at some calendar time, and that gets very expensive and also in many cases leads to less reliability. We need to do less of that.

Hi Anthony,

I have gathered the same from reading this thread over the years. I very well could have found myself in an Avanti last year when I was shopping to move up from the Cirrus. But some nervousness about the parts situation with Piaggio and the lower capital outlay of the 501 pushed me that way.

But your post adds weight to my point. Once you have a well-sorted Avanti, you probably aren't selling it for a good long time as you don't really have anywhere to go. So to heck with the overhauls, just fly the thing, and fix things when they break. That's what I'm doing with my Citation (although it has many fewer overhauls than an Avanti).

Just looking at my invoice from last December which was last time plane was in shop besides my dumb self overfilling freon.

1: 200 hr inspection $7,136
2: 200 hr lf & rd engine minor inspections and P-180 12 month/600 hour chip detector bridged inspection -$1,968

3&4: 150 hr/12 month lf & rt prop inspection and lubrication $1,188

5: Concord battery Capacity test and spewage inspection $380.00

6: 3 month / 6 month ELT battery operational test.
12 month FAR91.207D & 30 month "G switch" battery replacement $1,785
1-A0701 Battery included in above = $1,500

7: 6 month standby power supply capacity test $475

8: 6 month inspection items $385

9: 12 month inspection items $1,435

10: 24 month inspection items $665

11: 24 month FAR 91.411 & 91.413 & RVSM Operations inspections $2,500

12: 60 MONTH inspection items $12,127

13: 60 month Oxygen system three way valve overhaul $3,495

14: Rt engine starter/generator overhaul $3,258

28: Left starter/generator worn beyond limits- new starter generator left side $3,258

Above total $40,055

Other items I did not include in detail: minor corrosion on left strake, new radome boot, new prop retainers, labor to replace previously purchased new main tires, duplicate aircraft keys, 2 new life preservers, engine wash lf & rt and a couple other small fixes.

Grand total $48,382.00

Granted, above total is not quite pocket change but 48k to be up to date on 60 month inspections....on an aeroplane THIS friggN KOOL with more capability than I ever dared dream of

Still Grinning

Landed at home base yesterday after a two day trip to Montreal with seven “American” size males. Buddy who flies a Phenom300 was on the ramp. Ogled it like I always do. Boy it’s nice. Seems bulletproof with minimized inspection schedule. But, for 4x cap-ex of my Avant? Not for me.

PS. While ogling and BSing four busses pull up to deliver the Bucks to their charter. Maybe one of these days Ryan Day and crew will walk over and ask about the scarlet and grey, OSU designed Italian Beauty?

Anybody using the P180 eAFM app in the Apple store? Like it or not? For $199 just wondering if others find it quick and useful.

Or is anyone else using a similar app?

I've been using for 2 years. It's very good and I recommend it.

At some point it became virtually unusable for me (type too small). I run the IPad mini. It worked for me prior, but maybe it happened when I bought a new IPad, maybe a setting change.

I contacted the developer who was helpful, but said there was an iOS change that would require a significant rewrite on his part to correct my issue.