BeechTalk - BT - I have demofly a G5 CIRRUS SR22T GTS this afternoon.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Apr 2014, 11:28

Bill,

I like the side yoke in the Cirrus and side stick in the Corvalis. In fact, when you look at new designed airplanes which have less fascination with tradition many have moved to the side control (Airbus, Boeing, fighter Jets...). You do not need a yoke that is that large, that is a left over from WW2 Bombers. The additional space in front of the pilot is awesome.

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Apr 2014, 11:31

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Apr 2014, 12:45

Tim , of course side controller vs a real stick in front of the pilot may be much a matter of personal preference, and you like the side thing. Do you always fly with your left hand even though most U S pilots are right handed. I fly with both, and if trying to be really precise I'd prefer the throttle in the left hand and the stick in the right or at least that option.

But many of these new designs that you mention are more like airplanes that you ride in while the auto pilot does the flying, vs. planes like a P-51.
I don;t recall ever doing acro in a side controll plane, but let's say you do a roll and want to come back to neutral to finish. With a center stick you can feel and know right where that spot is. How do you know with a side controller? Really you have to just let the springs in a Cirrus find the point for you, which just doesn't feel as positive to me. Will built a small homebuilt, a Starlite with side control and it was ok, but on the first takeoff I had to correct quite a bit as I didn't know where neutral was.

And you write, "you don't need that big a yoke". Most of the high performance planes in gen av don't have a big yoke, and the best ones have a stick.
You mention space in front of the pilot. I don't see that this area is good for much else anyway that a small diameter stick like a P-51 or even a bit larger one like a Spitfire would block.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Apr 2014, 12:47

Username Protected wrote:

Bill,

I like the side yoke in the Cirrus and side stick in the Corvalis. In fact, when you look at new designed airplanes which have less fascination with tradition many have moved to the side control (Airbus, Boeing, fighter Jets...). You do not need a yoke that is that large, that is a left over from WW2 Bombers. The additional space in front of the pilot is awesome.

Tim

Just before I bought my SR22, I flew over to Lubbock for a test flight. My revelation came when I got back in my Bonanza. As is was in the Bonanza, I was controlling the power, prop, mixture, radios, XM, weather, and writing with my right hand. I was flying the yoke with only my left. The Cirrus is set up for the left hand and makes flying that way even more comfortable. This was a major surprise.

Just my extremely limited, to this point, observation.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2014, 01:35

Username Protected wrote:

This offer could be a dangerous one, Tony.....St tropez is becoming one of the most expensive and extravagant resort in the world these days.When you land in LA MOLE airport (st tropez airport), during summer, if you have less than a brand you jet they classify you has a third world country customer! :roll:

I am used to this. I fly a Cirrus after all...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2014, 02:24

Username Protected wrote:

:lol:

Tony, here is how you cure that: have some long Red Baron type scarves made out of parachute material. Then tell everyone how you made these from your last parachute pull.......

In St Trop, I think most of us mere mortals will fail to be noticed......
It has become the Dubai of the North......
100 mil net worth is the buy in

Luc, when I was a teenager, St Tropez used to be the nicest Mediterranean fisherman's village you could find...we spent a lot of summer holidays there with my family.

Now, it's a mix of Disneyland and Miami beach!

Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie own an estate close to LA MOLE, they have a CIRRUS SR 22 based there.....so if Tony lands his plane to LA MOLE they might give him the VIP service

landing in LA MOLE is very ''tricky'' you need a ''site qualification'' delivered after flying one hour with a local FI, it's valid for 2 years only.
here a video af a CIRRUS RS 22 landing in LA MOLE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... JNhoACUkCM
St tropez today:
the most expensive parking place in the world:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2014, 03:11

Username Protected wrote:

.....Bad points: Most of the great high performance planes have a real stick centered right in front of the pilot. Think of a Cub, Stearman, Chipmunk, Pitts, T-6, P-51, and most homebuilts like RVs etc.

You're comparing apples to bananas here.

The Cirrus has a mickey mouse side controller that looks like it was designed by some nerd engineer that never sat in or flew a plane. One can fly ok with it, but it is still a weak spot.

I agree with TIM here, whether I like or not is not the point, it's a much more ergonomic design. and the stick, in the G5, is near perfect, you can do easily a 60° left to 60° right by 5° increments.

Reminds me of the car, Renault, that I once drove where the wheel is off center. They say you get used to it, but why make a plane that starts off being a pain in the rear to the pilot. I think it is a case of new and different just to be that way and not an improvement. I'd never buy one just for that stick bull.
I was surprised that it was not really fast, only about 7 knots The Cirrus seems quite a bit noisier than my Bonanza.

I recently flew both a GEN5 and a NA G36, the CIRRUS is definitely faster than the NA Bo but should be about the same than a TN Bonanza.

For me personally, all the avionics techno whiz stuff is not a bonus, I persoally would llike some real gauges, though I could probably learn to work their stuff.

One has definitely to get used to the G1000 but then, you can't think of flying without it.The kind of situational awareness and security a G1000 gives you is unquestionable!

And frankly I think it is a bit funny looking with the big nose wheel and fairing out in front, it looks a bit like a trainer.
Since it is nowhere near as fast as some Lancairs or even Mooneys I think the fixed gear does hurt their speed somewhat.
Finally, I would have like to have seen the plane tested and met normal stall and spin recovery FAA specs, and then have the added parachute, rather than the chute be to some extent a crutch.

When entering into a spin, the average GA pilot is, almost, already dead. the 'chute, whether a marketing gimmick or not, is hell of a good option.

Comparing the two planes might be a bit like comparing driving a Corvette to a Porsche, it is feel, not just the numbers.

I,almost, agree! a Porsche and a Range Rover seems more adequate for me.

and, make no mistake, I just bought a BONANZA, so that the best proof that I prefer the Bo to the CIRRUS but this related to personal taste and the kind of missions I expect to fly. nevertheless, the CIRRUS is a very good plane and the kind of ''wake up call'' CIRRUS engineers have given to GA must be acclaimed by all of us.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2014, 07:46

Username Protected wrote:

:lol:

Tony, here is how you cure that: have some long Red Baron type scarves made out of parachute material. Then tell everyone how you made these from your last parachute pull.......

In St Trop, I think most of us mere mortals will fail to be noticed......
It has become the Dubai of the North......
100 mil net worth is the buy in

Luc, when I was a teenager, St Tropez used to be the nicest Mediterranean fisherman's village you could find...we spent a lot of summer holidays there with my family.

Now, it's a mix of Disneyland and Miami beach!

Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie own an estate close to LA MOLE, they have a CIRRUS SR 22 based there.....so if Tony lands his plane to LA MOLE they might give him the VIP service

landing in LA MOLE is very ''tricky'' you need a ''site qualification'' delivered after flying one hour with a local FI, it's valid for 2 years only.
here a video af a CIRRUS RS 22 landing in LA MOLE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... JNhoACUkCM
St tropez today:
the most expensive parking place in the world:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Apr 2014, 12:48

Jean Michael , if you love that side controller that dictates all flying with your left hand, then by all means that is what you should have.

For me, I like and am comfortable with the older more proven design. Some of the greatest cars or planes ever are ones where a design has be perfected over years not just the new and different one.

I think the car brands are a good analogy, and yes, I have owned both a Corvette and 2 Porsches. Like the Bonanza , the Porsche was the older design and well proven before Corvette ever came on the scene in the mid 50s. Corvette did some things differently ( (although they didn't put the steering wheel where only the left hand could reach it). GM had a lot of money to spend and came up with a good car, just like Porsche. Either is a fine car, but for me the Porsche just feels that it does things more naturally. It fits me, like the Mooney I owned and the T-34 and the B-36TC I own now.

Cirrus has done a good marketing job and perhaps reached out to segments of the public that others have not. My friend that has and likes his Cirrus which is his first airplane he ever owned.
And I really respect the Cirrus parachute.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Apr 2014, 10:25

Username Protected wrote:

Bill,

I like the side yoke in the Cirrus and side stick in the Corvalis. In fact, when you look at new designed airplanes which have less fascination with tradition many have moved to the side control (Airbus, Boeing, fighter Jets...). You do not need a yoke that is that large, that is a left over from WW2 Bombers. The additional space in front of the pilot is awesome.

Tim

NO Boeing has a side stick . . . Goes against Boeing's concept of CRM.

They have publicly gone on record stating that point.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Apr 2014, 10:59

Username Protected wrote:

Bill,

I like the side yoke in the Cirrus and side stick in the Corvalis. In fact, when you look at new designed airplanes which have less fascination with tradition many have moved to the side control (Airbus, Boeing, fighter Jets...). You do not need a yoke that is that large, that is a left over from WW2 Bombers. The additional space in front of the pilot is awesome.

Tim

NO Boeing has a side stick . . . Goes against Boeing's concept of CRM.

They have publicly gone on record stating that point.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Apr 2014, 16:30

I just watched the U-Tube of the C landing at St. Tropez.

Very interesting approach, but that is not the flight path I would have flown in my V.

Would have been much steeper for more terrain clearance and with a Bonanza it would have been no problem getting down, slowed down and stopped . . . And that may be one major difference.

I have heard c pilots say that speed control is much more important, and I'm guessing that this type of approach validates that.

All in all sure looks like a beautiful area.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Apr 2014, 18:20

Burns,

I find that it is easy to get slowed down in the Cirrus. Particularly with the G5 model with the much higher flap extension speed. The earlier models only have 119 KIAS flap extension speed so it may be more difficult. I'm with you I'd prefer a more steep approach.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Apr 2014, 19:38

The turbos with the fat props also slow down more quickly. The downside is they also don't glide as well....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Apr 2014, 19:53

Username Protected wrote:

Burns,

I find that it is easy to get slowed down in the Cirrus. Particularly with the G5 model with the much higher flap extension speed. The earlier models only have 119 KIAS flap extension speed so it may be more difficult. I'm with you I'd prefer a more steep approach.

Although the 200# UL difference between G3/G5 is significant, I believe the first notch extension speed difference is nearly as significant. I flew a G5 a few weeks ago and found pattern entry and landing to be a breeze and much different than the experience in a G3. It had been several years since flying in the G3, so experience and better skills could have played a factor but I believe the flap speed makes a HUGE difference in flying the airplane and have to believe that flying approaches would be easier in the G5 as well.