I'm an image is everything kind of guy and I think Cirrus wins the opening round of any comparison with the Bonanza on looks alone to MOST people that matter to Cirrus, NEW PILOTS WITH DOUGH. Most of the time, I imagine it's a knockout punch. I saw the newest of both parked next to each other a few weeks ago and the Cirrus seemed to give off an air of "jump the hell in and let's go." It's sleek, both doors open up and out and the ass end sits all high and just looks cock sitting there. The G36 was dragging ass and the step was about a foot off the ground and looked...lame. I mean it had the luxury look and all but just didn't quite put the lead in my pencil. At least pump up the struts and fight it out a bit..... mine is a different looking plane altogether with the right (too much) amount of charge in the struts. I can't help but imagining doing that would be frowned upon by mother Beech though and would take a few committee meetings to get approval.

It's about visceral attraction for starters and we haven't even opened the door of either and compared the guts. If I were a new pilot about to stroke a check for 3/4 of a cool million and I didn't know %#$@ from shineola, I would look at the 2, point to the Cirrus and say, "bathe her and bring her to me."

Bring on the new G36TC with G2000 and TKS and we have a fight on our hands. Of course, that's as long as the struts are pumped up.

I'm out....

We have a writer in the house!

I think the best selling piston airplanes right now are from a little company in Aurora Oregon called Vans aircraft. They are selling aluminum designs with no stick shakers and no parachutes... but they are nice, well balanced, simple and efficient designs that do a lot of things pretty darned well... a nice one will run you well under 200k and you can stick all manner of cool stuff inside it for 1/5 the cost of certified.

My point is that arguing G36 vs CirrusG5 is like arguing if you should buy a house in the Hamptons or the South of France. Relevant for the Crandall's of the world but pointless for most... The market has pivoted hard towards experimentals and the reason is obvious. There is too much regulation in the certification process...

Good point. An experimental duplicate of the A36 would be great.

So after they figure it out they get a Bonanza?

:-)

Whoa. An avg. of 215kts GS and 1,400 FPM descent into Aspen in weather on the approach? Since you brought it up.....that's not nailing it.

I agree with you on the Cirrus stuff though.

Fun discussion, at least for bystanders. The best thing to come up in my opinion is the idea of having a remote pilot take over - very thought provoking. I had just never considered the idea of someone remotely flying my plane with me in it. Does the plane then become a drone with passengers? I can just see a hot, crowded call center in India providing intelligent autopilot services. Also out of tradition I feel obligated to refer to Crandall in the 3rd person.

Knock yourself out. I've come to enjoy it so much I have all my office peeps do it also.

I completely agree. Kinda why I posted this.....

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78174&view=unread#unread

It is my humble opinion that there is absolutely no sound reason why we should be paying what we do for a new plane. It is also my opinion that there is no logical reason as to why we shouldn't be able to use the very same avionics (PFD, MFD, ETC) and Autopilots as the Experimental / LSA folk.

Once we get this oppressive regulation under control, and make some headway on Tort reform, as it relates to manufacturer & supplier liability, I would expect to see a flood of panel upgrades and hopefully therefore, more plane sales & new pilots. I also think this could usher in the option, once again, for the manufacturers to offer entry level aircraft that perform and are reasonably affordable.

I know, I know, it might seem like a bit of a stretch, but a guy can dream can't he?

As to the main theme of this thread......

Cirrus has done a bang up job in this industry. They started with a relatively clean sheet. Listened to what the focus groups told em. And finally they delivered a sexy product in which the perceived value outweighed the cost of acquisition. Is it an expensive aircraft? Yeah, but there selling the heck out of em, relatively speaking.

So here's to Cirrus' success! I just hope that Beech, Mooney and the others are taking notes, and truly trying to figure out what the next generation of pilots want, and how got deliver it to em!

As funny as that would be, it will be more of something like this.....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4872&hilit=bonanza+autolanding

The technology has been out there for over a decade now. It's the same basic system designed for use on UAV's. If they lose their ability to be controlled remotely, they can, by the use of the onboard gps and flight control system, will land the craft at the nearest friendly strip.

Same thing on the horizon for us. It'll be a big "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" button on the panel. If a pilot starts to become incapacitated or too scared to land the plane, hit the button, bingo, bango, bongo and she lands herself.

I may not like it, but I believe JC (and Max's, Dino's, and comments) are correct.

As a related example, thirty years ago within the tactical community I heretically argued that the predictive F-15/16 gunsights had become so good that they should be integrated with the flight controls: why have the pilot try to fly the plane to the HUD's solution? Let him have the option to enable, consent and disengage. (Like a CAT-III.) This would allow forward aspect gun kills well outside 3 miles. To my knowledge, this still has not occured.

Ancestor worship and institutional inertia: twin enemies of progress.

Hey.. isn't this how we lost that Stealth Drone to Iran a few months back?

I worked at Cirrus in the very early days and know the mgmt and the Klapmeiers. While there are plenty of flaws in the way the company began and was managed, there was a true environment of fresh air, fresh ideas and innovation that abounded. There were some truly talented engineers and designers who made the Cirrus what it is and clearly the innovation continues.

The most shameful mistake that caused the bulk of their financial woes was severely undervaluing their first sales. They were priced so far below the market, it was just plain ridiculous. If I recall correctly, the first SR20's were sold at ~$110K. Losing a little on each one and trying to make it up in volume clearly was not a smart business strategy. Had they priced their first batches of SR20's at a more reasonable price with good profit margins, I believe they would have been in a much stronger financial position, retained more equity of the company, survived the recession and kept the company away from the Chinese.

Although they made some crucial financial and mgmt mistakes, what you absolutely cannot argue with is their ability to respond to customer feedback with fantastic solutions. Any successful company listens very closely to their customers and makes a long-term commitment to constant innovation that satisfies customer needs and desires. This is precisely what Cirrus has done far better in recent years than any other aircraft manufacturer.

The increase in UL on the G5 was a very bold move by Cirrus. My biggest beef with the SR22 was its anemic UL and was a common complaint among customers. Cirrus listened and they delivered, despite many hurdles to get there. Criticize them if you want but they are a model for any business in terms of listening to customers and innovating to deliver what they are asking for.

That being said, even if I was oozing with $$, I'd have a real hard time writing a $700-800K check for a G5 SR22. For ~ 1/2 that amount you can get a beautiful used A36 with FIKI TKS, TAT TN, 6 seats, 1300# UL, G500 and a very nice interior. In terms of value for the $$ that A36 would be of better value to me today.

Can somebody tell me how to ignore threads? The g58 and now this thing keep popping to the top of my active list and I am sick of this garbage. Is there a way to ignore threads? Without having to ignore the entire forum they live in?

Coming out of a 52 beautiful Bonanza - anemic is such an inadequate word for the 1100lbs useful load of my cirrus. 1300lbs is fantastic but the SR22 has always been a very capable aircraft.