I dub thee Jim "Swizzle Stick" Cionntéa.

My whole point with the beach landing in this instance is that the pilot chose the beach on Hilton Head Island. It's outrageously crowded. There is not one foot of that beach that does not have a high rise on it. Had he chosen a deserted beach and still hit a guy, I would agree with it being a total accident that someone happened to be there.

If a pilot ditches in the water anywhere as opposed to the beach and hits a swimmer I would say it was a total accident too.

However, in any of the above cases, the pilot is going to be held liable if someone is killed wether any of us likes it or not.

My whole point with the beach landing in this instance is that the pilot chose the beach on Hilton Head Island. It's outrageously crowded. There is not one foot of that beach that does not have a high rise on it. Had he chosen a deserted beach and still hit a guy, I would agree with it being a total accident that someone happened to be there.

If a pilot ditches in the water anywhere as opposed to the beach and hits a swimmer I would say it was a total accident too.

However, in any of the above cases, the pilot is going to be held liable if someone is killed wether any of us likes it or not.

No doubt, he will bear the civil liability for this. A family possibly loosing their breadwinner etc. This will be between his insurance company, Continentals insurance company, Jim and Bobs drop-forging (where they apparently buy their crankshafts) and the decedents estate and family.

I would be very suprised if he was held criminally liable for this. Even though someone died, courts in the US rarely get involved in accidents like this.

Or the ocean

Jason,

I see where you're coming from and have noodled on it.

Where my brain breaks is that the rule you suggest requires that pilots are aware of population patterns below. You are familiar with the area. I'm not. To me it would have been a beach like in Michigan -- generally privately owned and sparsely populated.

If you wanted your rule to become the FAA rule, i.e. the Federal Law of the 50 States, then how would you implement it? Would you require that aviation charts and databases show population movement by season? By time of day? By something else?

If you came up with such a rule and mapping system, how could you advocate imposing it on the States and reconcile such central rule with your Ayn Rand/objectivism/state freedom/personal freedom torch?

You don't have to answer. It could take a book to do so and your time is valuable. I appreciate that. But if we ever have a beer summit that would be the kind of stuff I would enjoy discussing.

I'm not implying or suggesting there be any "rule".

If no rule then by what standard is a generic pilot supposed to be aware of the beach population? At Hilton? In March? In the morning?

I'm not trying to be a dick nostril. This is just the kinds of questions that would come up in the course of litigation and law making.

Or the ocean

There should be no law making.

I'm talking about "life".

Look, I carry a gun. Break in my house, I'll kill you. I have no fear in killing another human being who threatens me or my family. So, I'm not a puss about "life".

I've been seriously re-thinking my flying career over the past 6 months and this thread really hits home for me.

This pilot killed a guy doing something I love to do and do all the time. Flying is 100% a luxury. It's fun. I'm not afraid of killing myself flying. But I'm scared to death of killing an innocent bystander. Why? because I couldn't live with myself if I did. I don't know how this pilot will deal with what has transpired. I would imagine it is something that will haunt him the rest of his life.

When I started flying I was under the impression it was "safer than driving". Through all my conversations here on BT I'm learning it's about as dangerous as riding a motorcycle. I don't ride motorcycles because I have too many people counting on me. At least on a motorcycle I'll probably only kill myself. In my airplane I can kill my passengers and people on the ground and subject my business which a lot of people rely on to litigation. Am I totally insane?

Now I'm shopping $5 million insurance policies to hedge myself a bit but I know it's not enough.

Like someone said earlier in this thread in response to my "I'm never flying again" joke we always throw around here. We all say it and it's funny but we're all thinking it too.

Don't act like flying is safe all the while rocking "minimum insurance coverage" (I stole that from Jim Cionntea). It's a careless and irresponsible thing to do.

I'm shopping Barons. Not because I think they're safer but because it leaves me with less chance of killing someone on the ground.

I'm with you all the way Jason.

HOWEVER, flying IS safer than driving and, without question, riding a motorcycle

We just happen to have a place here called BT where most significant aircraft accidents in our country have their own thread.

If every successful flight had it's own thread then BT would only have 2 active members. Both named Jeff.

Jason,

That's deep. I was under the impression that you flew because it saved time and money.

If your deeper concern is for your fellow man and employees then I can't go there. I'm not in your shoes from a financial or leadership perspective.

You're a good man and IMO your moral compass provides good counsel. Trust your instruments.

Peace.

Ha. Good one.

However, a group of much older and wiser BT pilots were recently very adamant that flying our little piston planes is absolutely NOT safer than driving.

That too. And I love it. It's awesome.

Does anybody know how many people were on this beach. It is still off season. Was the jogger the only guy on the beach that day or were there other people on the beach?

I ask because if the pilot thought he was making an emergency landing on a clear beach and he happened to hit a lone beachgoer this mitigates the pilot's decision making, to a degree.

If, however, the beach did not look completely vacant, or worse appeared to have several beechgoers, that paints quite a different picture.

In the former scenario I think this can be termed an accidental death and there is a good possibility it will remain an insurance matter.

However, if the latter is true; the beach did not appear to be abandoned and the pilot made a landing attempt knowing that there were pedestrians - I believe no amount of insurance will provide financial protection - and in my opinion it shouldn't.

In addition to teaching in a coastal community I once flew a shoreline patrol. It was understood that it was only acceptable to attempt a forced landing on a beach in the very early morning hours if you were reasonably certain there was NO-ONE actually on the beach. Otherwise the pilot was expected to ditch outside the surfline.

I believe that Jason's basic premise holds water. The jogger did not assume a known risk, the pilot did, but it was the jogger who died.