Landed a bit after you, was admiring your plane in the ramp- gorgeous airplane! Enjoy Destin, we’ve got great weather this week

If I add up all the time I think about and deal with flying I don’t save any time. No doubt it’s a hobby and a very time consuming one at that.

That being said with the speed of a jet I get some of that time back. That wasn’t the case when I was flying prop speeds.

Training for me was 4 days total for my initial. Really was 3 but took longer as I was doing the training with another guy so it was a twofer.

I spent the same amount of time training in my PA-46 and 421. Flying any pressurized travel plane takes at least 3 days a year.

Bottom line is flying a private plane yourself takes a lot of time and money. None of us are saving either of those. Haha

Now my wife on the other hand, she saves a lot of time.

Mike

Biggest trip length shortening improvement I ever made was moving 20 minutes closer to the airport. I can't make that time up in the air in any other SP jet on my 2 hour flight.

Chip-

Tailwind days make the slower airplane look better and there was a decent tailwind on that trip.

Also, your route avoided the substantial icing around Kansas in the mid 20s (I know as I was flying the same day from KVGT to KAAO). You would not have been able to do this flight at FL270 had your route been through that area, so you are either going lower (more fuel), or around (more fuel).

All this is to say that your example trip had things line up well. Good weather, tailwinds, etc. It is a satisfying trip, no doubt, but you really buy a fast airplane for the headwind days, not the tailwind ones.

For me on that day, the trip would take 3:27 time, 610 gallons. Clearly more fuel but substantially less time. Do the trip in reverse, and you will have to make a fuel stop and I won't. Reverse numbers for me are 4:05, 710 gallons. The faster airplane is less affected by the wind, and I fly high enough that weather and icing are pretty much a non factor. I doubt you could have flown the reverse in less than 6 hours given you will need a fuel stop and you will have meaningful headwinds.

Having flown a turboprop faster than an M600 westbound in winter headwinds, the ability of the jet is substantial in those circumstances.

You probably paid about $3M for your 2018 M600.

I paid $700K for my 1991 C560V.

The $2.3M difference is about $180,000 in cost of money per year. That is my ENTIRE budget for flying the C560V for ~125 hours per year (which would take about 200 hours in an M600). This is a very significant factor given current inflation, interest rates, and investment opportunities.

You win for sure on the DOC, but when you look at the overall total cost of ownership, a $3M M600 is as expensive as my jet for my mission mix.

Also, there is nothing you can do to meaningfully reduce your yearly expenses if you need to since most of it is tied to cost of capital. For me, I can simply fly less.

I can't afford an M600. I can afford a C560V. Weird, but true.

Mike C.

Absolutely true.

I keep trying to live closer to the airport and failing to do so. Sigh.

Mike C.

You put in a new panel and fixed years of bad maintenance immediately after you got it. What was the total cost to bring it into service, and what was the cost of money for the downtime while neither your plane nor money was working?

Let’s use that number for comparisons.

You put in a new panel and fixed years of bad maintenance immediately after you got it. What was the total cost to bring it into service, and what was the cost of money for the downtime while neither your plane nor money was working?

Let’s use that number for comparisons.

Tailwind days make the slower airplane look better and there was a decent tailwind on that trip.

Also, your route avoided the substantial icing around Kansas in the mid 20s (I know as I was flying the same day from KVGT to KAAO). You would not have been able to do this flight at FL270 had your route been through that area, so you are either going lower (more fuel), or around (more fuel).

All this is to say that your example trip had things line up well. Good weather, tailwinds, etc. It is a satisfying trip, no doubt, but you really buy a fast airplane for the headwind days, not the tailwind ones.

For me on that day, the trip would take 3:27 time, 610 gallons. Clearly more fuel but substantially less time. Do the trip in reverse, and you will have to make a fuel stop and I won't. Reverse numbers for me are 4:05, 710 gallons. The faster airplane is less affected by the wind, and I fly high enough that weather and icing are pretty much a non factor. I doubt you could have flown the reverse in less than 6 hours given you will need a fuel stop and you will have meaningful headwinds.

Having flown a turboprop faster than an M600 westbound in winter headwinds, the ability of the jet is substantial in those circumstances.

You probably paid about $3M for your 2018 M600.

I paid $700K for my 1991 C560V.

The $2.3M difference is about $180,000 in cost of money per year. That is my ENTIRE budget for flying the C560V for ~125 hours per year (which would take about 200 hours in an M600). This is a very significant factor given current inflation, interest rates, and investment opportunities.

You win for sure on the DOC, but when you look at the overall total cost of ownership, a $3M M600 is as expensive as my jet for my mission mix.

Also, there is nothing you can do to meaningfully reduce your yearly expenses if you need to since most of it is tied to cost of capital. For me, I can simply fly less.

I can't afford an M600. I can afford a C560V. Weird, but true.

Mike C.

Mike C will pick up the microphone with numbers.

$234K all in.


This didn't add up to much. It was mostly my own leg work chasing these things down. Maybe $10K? Not much, just a lot of little fiddly things.


I'm still well under $1M.

The M600 owner has things to take care of as well. No plane is truly "ready to go", even new deliveries.

Mike C.

$700K, 100% bonus depreciated in the first year, 2020.

Avionics were expensed in 2021.

My results cannot be duplicated today due to market conditions, though prices are moderating somewhat from the highs and for sale inventory is increasing.

Mike C.

$700K, 100% bonus depreciated in the first year, 2020.

Avionics were expensed in 2021.

My results cannot be duplicated today due to market conditions, though prices are moderating somewhat from the highs and for sale inventory is increasing.

Mike C.

The M600 owner has things to take care of as well. No plane is truly "ready to go", even new deliveries.

Mike C.[/quote]
Mike,I disagree,my M600 has been perfect for 2 years and over 250 hours.

$234K all in.


This didn't add up to much. It was mostly my own leg work chasing these things down. Maybe $10K? Not much, just a lot of little fiddly things.


I'm still well under $1M.

The M600 owner has things to take care of as well. No plane is truly "ready to go", even new deliveries.

Mike C.

Jim,

Which is it, Chuck is a new car guy or would buy a used unicorn M600 for $2mm?

I have never been in a new plane and don't want to. LOL I was looking at the new CJ3 pics from NBAA and had to look away fast. Dang that thing was nice.

I think there are good arguments for both. The important thing is each guy has the plane he wants. We know both Chuck and Mike C are very happy with their choices.

I do think in general the cost to own a legacy Citation and newer SETP are closer than people realize. thats the base of the argument. Are there lots of variables, Yes.

There is no perfect plane. I wish I had a vision Jet for short trips and a Challenger for longer trips with more people. Really need like 3 planes and 2 helicopters to be dialed in. Like Tarver.

Mike


Mike