20 Nov 2025, 12:53 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 15:06 |
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Joined: 02/28/17 Posts: 1353 Post Likes: +1437 Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
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Username Protected wrote: If he got the DAR sign off and AW cert long ago we now know for sure those things do not mean much. LOL
That plane was not air worthy long ago. But maybe they just look at it and say yeah it looks like a airplane and has all the things like prop, wings, seats, etc.. So its air worthy. To be fair, they aren't aeronautical engineers. So as to whether it can fly is beyond their job description. And they're just like DPE's. Everyone is different. Mine was pretty thorough. But then again, he had probably inspected dozens of Velocity's so he knew what to look for. I've heard stories of some that hardly looked at the plane and others who spend a half day or even a whole day inspecting a plane.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 21:17 |
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Joined: 09/06/11 Posts: 812 Post Likes: +418
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So a serious question for the home building group - Peter got his AW feet in 2019. Since then there have been some pretty significant design changes (the control cables and stick redesign) that may appreciably affect flying characteristics etc. Does he need to get with the DAR or is he free to do anything he wants to the approved design as the owner builder ? Is he now working under his repairmans certificate?
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 08:23 |
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Joined: 08/10/14 Posts: 1798 Post Likes: +869 Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
Aircraft: TBM850
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Username Protected wrote: Interesting
He is a stronger man than I. If i was single and didn't have my wife to keep me from killing myself I would have totally flown it by now. Haha
The temptation must be so so powerful. I am impressed he has not just said F it and took off.
Mike Maybe his strength is not posting video of his trip around the pattern.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 08:29 |
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Joined: 05/11/10 Posts: 13387 Post Likes: +13218 Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
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Username Protected wrote: Interesting
He is a stronger man than I. If i was single and didn't have my wife to keep me from killing myself I would have totally flown it by now. Haha
The temptation must be so so powerful. I am impressed he has not just said F it and took off.
Mike Maybe his strength is not posting video of his trip around the pattern. That seems unlikely.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 09:23 |
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Joined: 05/06/14 Posts: 7305 Post Likes: +8963 Company: The French Tradition Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad - KTOA
Aircraft: 89 A36 TN, 78 Tiger
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Username Protected wrote: Maybe his strength is not posting video of his trip around the pattern. We will hopefully not read it on the news... I wish him the best of luck, but nature does have some laws of physics that come with heavy costs when not respected...
_________________ Bonanza 89 A36 Turbo Norm Grumman Tiger 78
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 12:39 |
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Joined: 05/01/14 Posts: 9749 Post Likes: +16681 Location: Операционный офис КГБ
Aircraft: TU-104
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Username Protected wrote: If he got the DAR sign off and AW cert long ago we now know for sure those things do not mean much. LOL
That plane was not air worthy long ago. But maybe they just look at it and say yeah it looks like a airplane and has all the things like prop, wings, seats, etc.. So its air worthy. Haha
Mike Keep in mind, it is not the FAA nor their representatives job to determine if an experimental aircraft is airworthy or safe. That responsibility falls on the builder and especially the PIC.
_________________ Be kinder than I am. It’s a low bar. Flight suits = superior knowledge
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 12:59 |
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Joined: 11/19/15 Posts: 1675 Post Likes: +1551 Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis Location: Draper UT KPVU-KVNY
Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
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Username Protected wrote: If he got the DAR sign off and AW cert long ago we now know for sure those things do not mean much. LOL
That plane was not air worthy long ago. But maybe they just look at it and say yeah it looks like a airplane and has all the things like prop, wings, seats, etc.. So its air worthy. Haha
Mike Keep in mind, it is not the FAA nor their representatives job to determine if an experimental aircraft is airworthy or safe. That responsibility falls on the builder and especially the PIC.
Yeah good point.
The dumb part is he can get that plane air worthy but I can't put a Garmin G3x in my 1977 421. LOL that would just be way too dangerous. Haha FAA
Mike
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 13:32 |
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Joined: 10/15/17 Posts: 954 Post Likes: +539 Location: DFW
Aircraft: F35
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah good point.
The dumb part is he can get that plane air worthy but I can't put a Garmin G3x in my 1977 421. LOL that would just be way too dangerous. Haha FAA
Mike 1000 times this. The FAA is actually contrary to safety in this aspect.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 13:54 |
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Joined: 09/21/13 Posts: 2180 Post Likes: +1385 Location: Wausau WI - KAUW
Aircraft: H35
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah good point.
The dumb part is he can get that plane air worthy but I can't put a Garmin G3x in my 1977 421. LOL that would just be way too dangerous. Haha FAA
Mike 1000 times this. The FAA is actually contrary to safety in this aspect.
I've said the same thing...it's super bizarre. He's also got a GFC500 in there, but it's too risky for my H35, even though N-V35 Bonazas already have it.
It's really more the "private use vs commercial use" than the "experimental vs certified". We really need that categorization to help the legacy fleet that will never realistically see commercial use ever again (albeit by choice though - if you want to keep a craft in the commercial-cert category like a 172 trainer, that's a-ok).
In theory that's MOSAIC, but who knows if that'll ever see the light of day in a coherent result. I'd happily move my H35 to "non-commercial" use in a heartbeat.
_________________ Be nice - Jim H Be nice, be kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-) - Doug R
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 17:40 |
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Joined: 11/20/16 Posts: 7179 Post Likes: +9468 Location: Austin, TX area
Aircraft: OPA
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Quote: I've said the same thing...it's super bizarre. He's also got a GFC500 in there, but it's too risky for my H35, even though N-V35 Bonazas already have it.  I think the issue is not the autopilot, but designing the servo mounts and getting the proper cable tensions and servo torque values. When I got mine, they had to send some of the servo mount parts back to Garmin twice because they didn't fit properly, and that was after it was certified for F33As. To turn those loose to people to engineer for themselves would truly be an experiment, and a huge potential liability for Garmin.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 17:58 |
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Joined: 09/21/13 Posts: 2180 Post Likes: +1385 Location: Wausau WI - KAUW
Aircraft: H35
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: I've said the same thing...it's super bizarre. He's also got a GFC500 in there, but it's too risky for my H35, even though N-V35 Bonazas already have it.  I think the issue is not the autopilot, but designing the servo mounts and getting the proper cable tensions and servo torque values. When I got mine, they had to send some of the servo mount parts back to Garmin twice because they didn't fit properly, and that was after it was certified for F33As. To turn those loose to people to engineer for themselves would truly be an experiment, and a huge potential liability for Garmin. But they're already doing that - Peter has a GFC in his mystery machine here, and it's in a gamut of other "unproven" experimental airframes without a problem for Garmin - it's purely an FAA paperwork problem at this point. And you had your issues with an already certified product, which also points to issues with the value of the certification process as well...
_________________ Be nice - Jim H Be nice, be kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-) - Doug R
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 18:08 |
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Joined: 11/20/16 Posts: 7179 Post Likes: +9468 Location: Austin, TX area
Aircraft: OPA
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But somebody building an experimental aircraft would have a much harder time proving Garmin was the reason for the crash. When you put an autopilot in a certified airplane, that autopilot installation has already been tested and certified.
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