BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 00:45

Username Protected wrote:

And while in a 5 minute iPhone search, I didn't find "they won't certify", here are a couple strong insinuations out of another handful

I never said the SF50 can't be certified. It can be, though not easily.

Don't make stuff up, particular claiming people have said stuff they haven't.

From this thread about a year ago (notice with link!):

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=100102&p=1302575#p1302575

I predict you are probably pretty close. I think it can be certified by that date, 3 years from now, assuming they don't cancel the project or radically change it. FIKI might not be part of that yet, and one should discount any provisional certification stunts like Eclipse did.

There is nothing about the SF50 that can't ultimately be certified. This issue was never about that. It was about making a crippled jet using false piston thinking.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 00:47

Really? All that shows is that you can say something different later.

I put your quotes. Search those words under your posts. Pretty easy to find.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 00:59

Username Protected wrote:

Really? All that shows is that you can say something different later.

Find me saying the SF50 can't be certified.

Link or it didn't happen.

I have consistently said it can be.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 08:17

Username Protected wrote:

What piston plane produced right now is better than a Cirrus?

"Better" depends on the buyer's needs.

In 2014, Cirrus shipped 160 SR22T, Cessna shipped 155 172S. Cirrus also shipped 117 SR22, 31 SR20. For some things, a 172 is better.

If I was forced to buy a new piston traveling machine, I'd look at a Piper Malibu Mirage (37 shipped in 2014). Pressurization is a game changer for traveling.

If I was forced to buy a new unpressurized travel airplane, I'd look at the Corvalis (22 shipped in 2014) and the Cirrus. The higher performance of the Corvalis would be favored all things being equal.

If I wanted a new piston twin, Diamond DA40 (136 shipped in 2014) or Baron (40 shipped in 2014).

If I was looking for a fun airplane, the Carbon Cub (53 shipped in 2014), or maybe a Decathalon (17 shipped in 2014).

BTW, there were 40 Barons and 32 Bonanzas shipped in 2014. That's a new piston Beech every 3 working days, not exactly dead as a product line.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 08:26

Here's a good one. I'm still going

Username Protected wrote:

If Cirrus delivers the fifth SF-50 to a customer (to avoid any shenanigans with fake early deliveries, an industry tradition) by Jan 1st, 2018, 3+ years from now and more than 10 years after the program was started, then I will never post again on this forum. If they fail to, you will never post again on this forum.

Have we got a deal? :-)

If you start arguing that 3 years isn't enough time, then you are basically saying the SF-50 really is vaporware right now.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 08:41

Another good one.

Username Protected wrote:

There are plenty of things that sell that make no sense. Especially in the luxury market.

But few require FAA certification. Cirrus is entering uncharted territory, the FAA has never certified an SEJ. If we know anything about the FAA, they don't do new things fast or easy. And then there's the fact that Cirrus has never certified a jet, much less a pressurized airplane, ever. The companies who HAVE done that STILL have troubling getting it done.

Again, "sell" is different than "deliver".

Quote:

Anyone who flies a MU is likely to be the polar opposite of an sf 50 buyer

Thank you for that compliment.

The dream has been sold, now comes the reality. Will banks lend money for an SF50? Will there be affordable insurance for the owner operators? If the SR series is any indication, it will be expensive. Will there be sim training available? Who will do type ratings? What recurrency requirements will there be? What will the inspection program look like? Who can do it?

There is a whole infrastructure around operating an SF50 so it isn't JUST THE PILOT for which the airplane has to make sense.

Everything is beautiful now because the SF50 doesn't exist. Reality bites.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 08:57

Username Protected wrote:

If Cirrus delivers the fifth SF-50 to a customer (to avoid any shenanigans with fake early deliveries, an industry tradition) by Jan 1st, 2018, 3+ years from now and more than 10 years after the program was started, then I will never post again on this forum. If they fail to, you will never post again on this forum.

Have we got a deal? :-)

If you start arguing that 3 years isn't enough time, then you are basically saying the SF-50 really is vaporware right now.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 10:22

Just start at page 12 and keep going.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 12:28

Username Protected wrote:

Find me saying the SF50 can't be certified.

Link or it didn't happen.

And that's why you don't argue with Mike. Game plan: deny and ignore. Carry on. I'll wait for a change of direction.

Attachment:

Dead Horse - Cat Meme.jpg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 12:47

Still no link? :stir:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2015, 13:05