Todd -
Your estimates above are pretty darn close to what you would see. If you search the threads I gave some real world examples of how terrible the pricing is for a IVP Turbine (at say $350-$400k in value) compared to a TBM or Meridian. Basically for 1/3 of the hull insurance you are paying what you would pay in a production Meridian or TBM (say at $1.5m in value) to insure a IVP Turbine for full flight coverages. There were only 1 possibly two underwriting carriers that would even look at it last time I went to market with a fairly experienced pilot getting into one. Not the best insurance landscape is an understatement.

Tom,

I agree. I would never buy a 4-place pressurized experimental (especially a turbine) that I had to insure. For my purposes spending even $200k or so a lot of money. I'm just an average guy financially and spending $500k for a plane will most likely never be in the cards, especially when I will only fly it about 50 hours per year or so.

I'm getting to the stage where I want to get back to a little less complex plane, but still want to go fast. Since I do not need a family traveling machine it does not have to be pressurized or have de-ice. I am fine with wearing o2.

I guess I started backwards. I went from a 152, to an Arrow, Velocity, Saratago Turbo, 310,etc all in 4 years after getting my license. I have done about all the "hard" x-country I want to do with weather planning, making sure the plane is comfortable for everyone, making sure the ride is perfect, etc.

The Radial Rocket numbers I have seen are no faster than the F1 EVO and more gas.... The way to make a Rocket go 20 kts faster is reduce the wing area, and then the stall speed goes up, and icing becomes a much bigger issue....

Putting the gear up might buy 10 kts but it increases the complexity of the airplane dramatically and unless you can get REALLY tight fitting gear doors, it would gain even less....

The only way to make it 20 knots faster is to turbo it, and then it would be cruising at FL180 at the TAS redline... Then people would over speed it in the descent and they would start having flutter accidents... There have already been some flutter problems, but I think everyone has made it down in one piece, some awfully bent up, but intact.....

Further, it would be a very tight installation.....

Todd,

..just some food for thought:

From your home to Venice, FL

KGWB - KVNC at 200 knots = 4 hrs 19 min
.................... at 230 knots = 3 hrs 45 min

34 minutes difference for that 30 knots.

Will the Glasair and the other contenders here do it non-stop?

Arlen,

Actually, I will be going south another 60 miles to FMY; however, the only way to go non-stop is usually when going south just like the Duke. One advantage the Turbine legend has is the ability to go to 25K and get about 250 knots true on roughly 35 GPH. It has 140 usable, so maybe a chance of getting there if the weather is good and you pick up a tailwind. The Lancair has 64 usable and maybe 215 knots true on 15 GPH. So, it is only going to make it if you have a screaming tailwind and still would be iffy.

The great thing about any of these planes is the ability to climb at least 3k per minute if needed and with the Legend more than that. You can get above the weather quickly.

My head is spinning thinking about all these. I like the turbine reliability, power, speed, cheaper fuel, etc. I also prefer the size of the Legend - it looks like a real airplane. I like the Lancair support and cheaper price. And then, I like the F-1 Evo for the down right dirt simple systems.

And, the same flight in my old Debonair with its tip tanks, so it can easily be made non-stop, is about 5 hrs 10 minutes. If you have to stop for fuel, the speed advantage of these planes is gone.

Of course, most bladders (including mine) have trouble going > 5 hrs...

Arlen, remember Todd is talking about flying alone these days. Stopping to pee is not an issue. Just a "WIDE MOUTH" plastic bottle will suffice.

Arlen, remember Todd is talking about flying alone these days. Stopping to pee is not an issue. Just a "WIDE MOUTH" plastic bottle will suffice.

I can't wait to see Todd's newest speedster!

Arlen,

Actually, you are looking at 5:30 in a Deb to FMY. I already have a Duke that will do it in 4:05 non-stop no-wind.

Also, remember, 5:10 is without wind. Put 40 knots on the nose of your Deb and you are 7:15 and a stop. You are also not going much above 13k without running out of power. A 40 knot headwind in the Legend makes it a 4:15 trip instead of 3:40. That is a 3 hour difference between the Deb and the Legend. Remember, the higher the true airspeed - the less % of time a headwind affects you. It makes a big difference and that is why I really want at least 230 knots true. Coming home in the Duke I had 80 knots on the nose for 1/3 of the trip and roughly 40-50 knots the rest of the way. I was true at roughly 210 knots. In a Deb I would have had a ground speed of 90 knots with a top speed of 120 or so. That would have been a 9 hour trip and most likely would have converted me back to the airlines. It ended up being about 6.6 hours in the Duke and I was on suicide watch at that speed. I was able to take advantage of winds that were actually not as strong at 17k as they were at 9k down lower. There was also a Sigmet for extreme turbulence below 11k from Atlanta to Lexington. It was not really smooth until 15k. I want some options with altitude.

I don't mind making the stop when I can climb back to altitude in less than 6 minutes.

Makes sense.

I want a ride...

Oh, and can you bring it to Max's fly-in in Knoxville in May?

I don't get the logic of sending the family on the airlines.

If they are not comfortable flying "in a small plane" but will fly on the airlines, then the choice is for everyone to go on the airline, or to send the family that way and fly yourself in your own plane.

Think of it this way: If I go by myself or with a son that likes to fly I can go when I want and fly how I want. If I want to stay at 25k and do a 7k per minute descent I can do it. If I want to fly upside down 1/2 the way, I can do it.

I don't have to reassure the wife that the wing is not going to fall off, the ice is not bad, I have enough fuel, I'm not having a heart attack, the visibility is good enough to land, etc. I also don't have to worry about how hot or cold they are make sure they are comfortable, pack a bigillion things in the plane and scramble to find alternate flights if the plane breaks. I will actually enjoy the flight.