The cost of insurance is tied mostly to hull value.

If your state law allows you to fly uninsured (most do), then self insurance is an option in some cases. That's a lot easier to tolerate with a lower hull value.

Mike C.

What about the liability piece of insurance and being able to get smooth coverage on a 501 vs turboprop? Also not carrying liability insurance on either type seems like a really big risk even if some states don’t require insurance. Is it possible to carry liability only insurance and not carry hull value?

Chip-

Chip-
You can't just buy Hull insurance. You can however buy just liability but a lot of insurers aren't selling just liability in the space right now for the turbine class noted - those that are are pricing it in the turbine class usually over $10k for lower limits sometimes $15k (meaning they don't want to write it so the pricing is high versus if you would buy it in conjunction with hull coverage which is more typical).

Insurance is crazy on my 501sp Eagle II. $30k a year

So insurance has to be more on a jet than a SETP.

But I can and do carry more passengers.

A Jet cost more to fly no matter how you look at it. Not saying it’s the cheaper solution. The cheapest solution is a Cessna 150. LOL. My guess is annual cost to maintain and fly a jet is more than a SETP.

My point is it’s worth it. And if you can own and fly a $2m SETP then you can own and fly a light jet.

For me the ability to dry lease the Jet really makes it worth it. Easy to do with a jet. Hard to do with a SETP.

Mike

Michael-

Good feedback....
This is one of the reasons insurance is likely crazy for you - a good number of insurers that are really competitive in the sub $750k hull value Citation 501 market (owner/flown single-pilot) won't allow dry leasing of any kind (external to third parties unrelated to the ownership of the aircraft). Hallmark and London Aviation Underwriters come to mind. So you are likely paying a premium to be insured by a carrier that WILL allow dry leasing. Further you are operating a 40+ year old bird - that also limits the market a bit. Endstate your premium is likely artificially high due to dry leasing ability and insuring with the market that will accommodate such.

My 501 has a hull value of 750K and I pay $11,800 per year. This is pretty reasonable.

Mike

Remarkably reasonable. What ratings, time in type, etc contribute to that?

Tom

Yes you are correct without the ability to dry lease I would be in the lower 20’s. Plus I have an odd situation because I am an owner that is not current as I still do not have my medical. So they insure it as if I am going to illegally fly the plane. Pretty dumb but my guess is some idiots in the past have ruined it for guys like me.

So yes mine is artificial high. I have my hull value at $1M and the highest liability I could get.

But I get about $150k a year in dry lease revenue so it works out. The dry lease covers my Williams program, insurance, hangar, etc. I pay less per year to own this jet than I did for my Mirage.


Mike

I'm paying $11K on a $900K hull Citation V with under 200 hours in type, single pilot.

Liability is bare minimum, however, $1M/$100K. It is effectively near zero. I feel less exposed to liability in the jet than I did in the turboprop, but mostly I couldn't get "reasonable" liability coverage with low time in type. I'll see how it works out this year since I am due to renew soon (now 270 hours in type).


Not if you want to move a family of four across the country. It will take a month to do that in a 150. Literally! A mini van would win that race easily.

Do not, under any circumstances, fly your family in a jet and then downgrade to a turboprop. This may be the best reason to get a Meridian, don't let your family experience true private aviation comfort and speed.

Mike C.

Cheaper per year than the Mirage. Wow now that is enticing. How many days a month is your aircraft unavailable to you? How far in advanced is it usually scheduled? Is this hard to do?

Andy, are your engines on a program and if so, how much do you pay per hour?

Cheaper per year than the Mirage. Wow now that is enticing. How many days a month is your aircraft unavailable to you? How far in advanced is it usually scheduled? Is this hard to do?

The comment regarding dry leasing only on engine program makes sense to me. I've considered dry leasing my Meridian, but one of my big concerns is some dry lease pilot isn't attentive and has a hot start, or forgets to turn on the ignitors, and....boom. Will your engine program cover you for a hot start?

What is your lease rate per hour?

Includes fuel or no?

If no fuel, how do you account for what is left in the tank?

Mike C.

To be honest not sure what happens if you hot start. it has ECU's which is basically Fadec but without the back up, so they cant call it Fadec. So it's got a computer doing most the work. But not sure about hot start.

Pretty hard to mess up a Williams engine. With the ECU it's pretty simple and does everything automatically. You do not need to do N1 calcs, you just push them forward and it figures it out, it's pretty nice. You take off max thrust then you pull it back after departure and it figures out Max continuous thrust MCT on its own. So so nice especially after flying a 421C which is like chasing two 4 year olds in a china store. You cant take your eyes off of them and takes constant management. The Williams engines is about as easy as you can get.

The program covers FOD.

Sorry for totally derailing this thread. LOL

Mike