And what percentage those were due to Covington workmanship?

Probably not many, I'd wager.

Mike C.

I mean no disrespect to you and the stocking aircraft dealers, but if that is both your stance and you cannot explain that to a someone purchasing an airplane, then both of you are doing the buyer a disservice. I would not do business with either of you.

Both StandardAero and Dallas are no where near the quality of Covington. They're owned by folks that care about carried interest and their stock price, not their customer. They will gouge you and not bat an eyelid. If you both don't understand how to explain this to a customer I'm truly baffled. I guarantee that they treat their staff the same way.

If you continue along this vein and discredit Covington, we're not friends. Cause you care about the wrong things too.

Tell him/her that they're idiots, and you can mention me by name.

And I can tell ANY PC12 owners, past, current, future, having Covington do your HSI or overhaul will have NO EFFECT on the sale price. I betcha once folks get more than 2% of an education, you'll see that a Covington overhaul will be worth more.

Frankly it's why I do my own work buying airplanes, and also why I missed out on the Avanti.......disinformation.

I mean no disrespect to you and the stocking aircraft dealers, but if that is both your stance and you cannot explain that to a someone purchasing an airplane, then both of you are doing the buyer a disservice. I would not do business with either of you.

Both StandardAero and Dallas are no where near the quality of Covington. They're owned by folks that care about carried interest and their stock price, not their customer. They will gouge you and not bat an eyelid. If you both don't understand how to explain this to a customer I'm truly baffled. I guarantee that they treat their staff the same way.

If you continue along this vein and discredit Covington, we're not friends. Cause you care about the wrong things too.

Tell him/her that they're idiots, and you can mention me by name.

And I can tell ANY PC12 owners, past, current, future, having Covington do your HSI or overhaul will have NO EFFECT on the sale price. I betcha once folks get more than 2% of an education, you'll see that a Covington overhaul will be worth more.

Frankly it's why I do my own work buying airplanes, and also why I missed out on the Avanti.......disinformation.

I don't quite buy your claim you didn't help create and perpetuate the message.

Ultimately, brokers make more money when planes sell for more money. That's true for seller and buyer agent generally. The easiest way to do that is to create the appearance of value from reputations and other soft assets.

"Yeah, this plane is $300K more for the same thing, but it has Dallas overhauls!"

Branding is essentially creating value from nothing but a perception, that is, more value than the thing itself intrinsically has. No brand can do that without a willing population of advocates. It is in your interest to be one of those advocates.

In the end, all this means is that some folks will spend more for the name, and some folks will spend less for the same thing without the name. If both are happy, then the system is working for everyone.

Mike C.

I agree with this based on my former 10 years of TBMOPA membership. That group is hungry for competition to the PT6. Until that time comes they are hungry for ways to lower the cost of long term ownership of their engines.

I would give Covington a strong look based on what Michael P. has stated, but have concerns that align with Chip. Right now, I believe that the formal TBM "network" of dealers/distributors, brokers, and advisors would be leery. Again, not my feeling toward Covington, just reading the room in a figurative way.

Like any group the TBMOPA has its influencers, some can be very passionate. I have seen it in the past and once a few people start endorsing something others will get on the bandwagon. TBM owners like to fly and the idea of dropping off the plane and returning later to pick it up with a fresh low cost HSI would absolutely get my attention.

I don't quite buy your claim you didn't help create and perpetuate the message.

Ultimately, brokers make more money when planes sell for more money. That's true for seller and buyer agent generally. The easiest way to do that is to create the appearance of value from reputations and other soft assets.

"Yeah, this plane is $300K more for the same thing, but it has Dallas overhauls!"

Branding is essentially creating value from nothing but a perception, that is, more value than the thing itself intrinsically has. No brand can do that without a willing population of advocates. It is in your interest to be one of those advocates.

In the end, all this means is that some folks will spend more for the name, and some folks will spend less for the same thing without the name. If both are happy, then the system is working for everyone.

Mike C.

When it comes to what is acceptable, or marketable in the aviation world, you have to understand that most are slow to adopt to new things. There are forces at work here that companies spend millions of dollars and decades to change.

There is a very well established King Air market, it is made up of the owners, the dealers, the pilots, the mechanics, the advisors, the brokers, the magazines and blogs... the vendors, the repair stations... the speakers at NBAA... Textron... the list goes on. There is a huge amount of tribal knowledge and opinions that influence what those in the market are willing to accept.

I didn't decide one day that if an airplane didn't have engines overhauled by a certain shop that the value was impacted. I was taught that. This isn't some type of fairytale... this is reality. Mike and Mike can say it's wrong, get mad at me or blame me. I'm not blowing the house down, I'm just telling y'all it's windy outside.

Comparing these three airplanes is like comparison shopping the produce department at Kroger.

All I know about covington is good. I would not seek these engines in 4M king air. That is not covington’s market place. I’m sure one of their pratt overhauls in a Thrush or air tractor is a different story. Covington is well known in that market.

I just wouldn’t bet my 4M king air just so I could become covington’s biggest cheerleader at 4m dollar airplane selling time .

I'm still unclear on the difference.

the HSI is done to P&W specs, right?

so how is the Covington HSI different the one done by Dallas?

The most impressive thing I have seen from Dallas Airmotive is the bill! I’m not a fan of Dallas Airmotive. Fired them in2007 after a bad Airtight warranty experience. I given them lots of free advertising since.

Really?

In a sense, it is just like some operators saying that they do not want to send their pilots to the King Air Academy or to FlyRight for training, because they do not have the same name recognition as the big providers.

That perception shows lack of due diligence and lack of understanding of the quality and safety that is required to operate your 4M aircraft.

That's what I've been trying to find out. If Pennman had gone to Dallas or Pratt, what would have been different and what would the cost have been. Anecdotally, my understanding is that Pratt will replace a bunch of worn stuff with new stuff. I was told by two shops, "You can save money by doing a cheap HSI but it's a pay it now or pay more later thing". Obviously Pennman and other don't see it that way, but I would still like to know what precisely is changed for new and what that means over a full overhaul cycle.

I have no dog in this fight. My engine is currently being overhauled. My mechanic got the same quote from Covington as Dallas so no price advantage. We went with Dallas because they have a shop in NC. His opinion is that they do equivalent quality work.

That's what I've been trying to find out. If Pennman had gone to Dallas or Pratt, what would have been different and what would the cost have been. Anecdotally, my understanding is that Pratt will replace a bunch of worn stuff with new stuff. I was told by two shops, "You can save money by doing a cheap HSI but it's a pay it now or pay more later thing". Obviously Pennman and other don't see it that way, but I would still like to know what precisely is changed for new and what that means over a full overhaul cycle.

Don't confuse a quote with a bill. Two totally different animals.