20 Nov 2025, 17:16 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale  Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 18:59 |
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Joined: 12/20/15
Posts: 216
Post Likes: +120
Location: AZ
Aircraft: C501
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17.5K is a beautiful place. I have flown there in pistons, SETP and multiple jets...(I wasn’t paying for the gas in the jets). Jason...you need to stop telling everyone how great it is...don’t want the secret to get out.
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 19:11 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13630
Post Likes: +7763
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC
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Username Protected wrote:
The easiest thing for ATC is everyone on a flight plan... flight following and tracking unknowns is a pain.
Then why do they turn away requests for FF when they are busy?
_________________
Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients
My 58TC https://tinyurl.com/mry9f8f6
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 19:44 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Username Protected wrote: Turning off your radio and flying VFR around large metro areas is perfectly legal and so is driving 55mph in the fastlane.
I think both are rude. I'll never agree with this. Maintaining my own separation on a VMC is LESS strain on the system. I'm out from under Class B faster than anyone. Same with coming back in. Cancel at 18K and bring it in VFR. I've flow like this for thousands of hours and not a single issue. I don't see how you compare that to driving slow in the fast lane. I think holding short, waiting on IFR release on a VMC day is "driving slow in the fast lane". Like just get outta there. Go. You don't need an IFR to take off on a beautiful, sunny day. You're the problem.
If you are in a busy metro area and on FF then you are part of the system and it works good.
If you are in the middle of nowhere nobody cares.
Taking off VFR and picking up a clearance works great. I do it all the time but I am also talking to controllers right after takeoff if I am in busy airspace.
But If you are not talking to anybody in a busy metro area then you are the problem everyone else has to deal with.
Maintaining your own traffic separation is not helping anybody but you. The controllers don’t follow Jason’s rules of separation and have no idea what you are going to do!
I am tired of hearing the controllers say “ turn right 20 degrees there is vfr traffic climbing at your 12 o’clock and I am not talking to him”. That’s you causing the vector if your not talking.
It’s like 55mph in the fast lane because everybody needs to either drive around the clueless idiot or wait for him to pull over in the right lane.
That’s what happens when I hear “ turn right 20 degrees there is VFR traffic climbing at your 12 o’clock and I am not talking to him”. I have to wait for the clueless idiot or go around him.
Last edited on 30 Dec 2017, 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 19:49 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote:
The easiest thing for ATC is everyone on a flight plan... flight following and tracking unknowns is a pain.
Then why do they turn away requests for FF when they are busy?
Kaboom!!
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 19:51 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: But If you are not talking to anybody in a busy metro area then you are the problem everyone else has to deal with.
Maintaining your own traffic separation is not helping anybody but you. The controllers don’t follow Jason’s rules of separation and have no idea what you are going to do!
That's fine with me. You go be "communal" with everyone else. The controllers don't own the airspace and neither do you. Congratulations Comrade........ You are fully assimilated!!!
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:11 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Username Protected wrote:
The easiest thing for ATC is everyone on a flight plan... flight following and tracking unknowns is a pain.
Then why do they turn away requests for FF when they are busy?
I have mostly heard FF request denied around large metro areas, here are a couple of reasons.
Weather changes
Visibility changes
Turning an airport around.
Why do airplanes get holding instructions? Same idea as denying FF request.
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:13 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I have mostly heard FF request denied around large metro areas, here are a couple of reasons.
Weather changes
Visibility changes
Turning an airport around.
Why do airplanes get holding instructions? Same idea as denying FF request. But I thought it was easier on the controllers if everyone was in the system?
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:15 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Username Protected wrote: But If you are not talking to anybody in a busy metro area then you are the problem everyone else has to deal with.
Maintaining your own traffic separation is not helping anybody but you. The controllers don’t follow Jason’s rules of separation and have no idea what you are going to do!
That's fine with me. You go be "communal" with everyone else. The controllers don't own the airspace and neither do you. Congratulations Comrade........ You are fully assimilated!!!
I do own the airspace and so do you. We all own the airspace here in the USA.
It’s ours and we need to keep it that way.
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:18 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote:
I do own the airspace and so do you. We all own the airspace here in the USA.
It’s ours and we need to keep it that way.
You don't "keep it that way" by giving "them" control. Is ATC doing you any favors when you're at the hold short line for 20 minutes waiting for IFR release?
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:19 |
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Joined: 10/26/16
Posts: 476
Post Likes: +692
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Username Protected wrote: That's fine with me. You go be "communal" with everyone else. The controllers don't own the airspace and neither do you.
Congratulations Comrade........ You are fully assimilated!!! Here is some reading for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commonsAirspace by the very definition is "communal". I see no problem crossing majority of the world right below class A without talking to anyone, but going right over Bravo in such fashion just makes you an ass, opposite of polite. Politeness in itself does not mean you've become part of the Borg.
Last edited on 30 Dec 2017, 20:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:24 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Username Protected wrote:
I do own the airspace and so do you. We all own the airspace here in the USA.
It’s ours and we need to keep it that way.
You don't "keep it that way" by giving "them" control. Is ATC doing you any favors when you're at the hold short line for 20 minutes waiting for IFR release?
It’s not all about you!
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:27 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13630
Post Likes: +7763
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC
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Username Protected wrote:
I have mostly heard FF request denied around large metro areas, here are a couple of reasons.
Weather changes
Visibility changes
Turning an airport around.
Why do airplanes get holding instructions? Same idea as denying FF request.
I hear it all the time in Phx. None of the above typically apply. They consistently get turned away when the controllers are busy.
_________________
Views are my own and don’t represent employers or clients
My 58TC https://tinyurl.com/mry9f8f6
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:30 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: It’s not all about you! You're not "better" because you're on an IFR flight plan.
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:33 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Username Protected wrote:
I have mostly heard FF request denied around large metro areas, here are a couple of reasons.
Weather changes
Visibility changes
Turning an airport around.
Why do airplanes get holding instructions? Same idea as denying FF request.
I hear it all the time in Phx. None of the above typically apply. They consistently get turned away when the controllers are busy.
Those examples were illustrating times when the controllers would get busier.
That’s the point poping up announced stresses the system.
You want FF during the busiest time of the day? Don’t get mad when they say no and definitely don’t go off your IFR flight plan to save a few minutes.
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Post subject: Re: Kestrel prototype for sale Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 20:34 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
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Username Protected wrote: It’s not all about you! You're not "better" because you're on an IFR flight plan.
Define better?
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