09 May 2025, 19:43 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 07 Jun 2024, 15:15 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 08/13/20 Posts: 227 Post Likes: +177 Location: KLOU/KJVY
|
|
I can't tell you how many times ATC has asked me if I can do a faster speed, and I do my best Star Trek impersonation voice and say "I'm already giving it everything I've got Captain!" -Slowtation one victor papa
_________________ -Citation 501 -Robinson R66
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 07 Jun 2024, 17:45 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1610 Post Likes: +1681 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
|
|
Username Protected wrote: On the 501 speeds I didn’t know the williams was that much faster than the PW.
I am usually in the upper 370’s and feel slow. Haha I guess I should be thankful for that speed.
Sometimes in the 380’s but not as often. Have only seen the 390’s twice.
Mike Huh? That's not cruise flight. He is CLIMBING through FL295 in that pic. To be fair he also has the throttles pulled back a bit. I run mine at 650 ITT all the time and will regularly true out at 365 @ 950lbs/hr in cruise.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 08 Jun 2024, 03:57 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 07/30/20 Posts: 93 Post Likes: +30 Location: Findlay, Ohio
Aircraft: 1980 421C
|
|
What do you think the minimum total time requirements are to get insured as PIC in a 501?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 08 Jun 2024, 08:31 |
|
 |

|

|
Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5164 Post Likes: +5125
Aircraft: C501, R66
|
|
Username Protected wrote: What do you think the minimum total time requirements are to get insured as PIC in a 501? Reasonable insurance will want 1000 TT and a few hundred multi. You can get insured with less but you won't like the premium for the first year. Mike
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 09 Jun 2024, 14:02 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19980 Post Likes: +25039 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Reasonable insurance will want 1000 TT and a few hundred multi. You can get insured with less but you won't like the premium for the first year. Another option is "self insured", a fancy name for "no insurance". Realistically, a liability limit of $1M is close to nothing if you have an "event". So you really aren't that naked without liability insurance. As to hull value, a 501 is relatively low value and a finite number (unlike liability exposure), so that can be managed. A 1000 TT is good, but I'm not sure you really need lots of piston multi. A fair number of folks have gone from piston singles to twin jets. My current insurance is $900K hull, $3M liability with a $250K/seat sublimit. Cost is $15.8K per year and was basically the same as last year for the same coverage. My hull is underinsured relative to market (maybe $1.4M?), but covers my investment. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 08:29 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1904 Post Likes: +1561 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Thanks to this thread and Mike Tarver, I bought a 501 jet. Now, 1.5 years later, I think i own the nicest one in the world. Full Garmin panel, new paint, new interior. A brand new jet for under $1M. See pics attached and 1min transformation video on YouTube: [Link]https://youtu.be/I8YOO22zqEE[/Link] JD that Looks AMAZING. Here's the fixed link: https://youtu.be/I8YOO22zqEE?si=MVQA6HemZltTXm0NAny surprises during the paint, avionics, interior?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 08:49 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1904 Post Likes: +1561 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I run mine at 650 ITT all the time and will regularly true out at 365 @ 950lbs/hr in cruise. Chris, at what altitudes are you getting that much air and fuel through yours???? I was MCT at FL370 yesterday; 102.1% N1. Exactly book fuel flow of 816pph for 370. It was HOT though almost ISA +20. TAS was a little slower than book but I'm guessing that was due to the OAT. Disregard the 104% N1 limit on the gauge...that's a loaner from a 550 while my gauge is out for repair. Btw, the winds were howling and that's a personal best for me....411kts gs in level flight and 465kts in the descent. I was literally giggling. One of my best friends flies a Learjet and thought that speed was cute. 
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 09:22 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19980 Post Likes: +25039 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Btw, the winds were howling and that's a personal best for me....411kts gs in level flight and 465kts in the descent. I was literally giggling. One of my best friends flies a Learjet and thought that speed was cute. :whiteflag: A Citation V driver will think the same... 420+ true is easily achieved. Groundspeeds into the 500s occur, particularly flying east in winter. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 09:40 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 03/09/11 Posts: 1764 Post Likes: +825 Company: Wings Insurance Location: Eden Prairie, MN / Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
|
|
Username Protected wrote: What do you think the minimum total time requirements are to get insured as PIC in a 501? Chase- If you are flying a 421 now you'll have a very easy time of it to secure reasonable insurance in a step up to a 501 - the 501 hull value is low which helps (comparative to other owner flown light jets like a Mustang, Phenom 100, Legacy CJs etc) and if you have twin multi-piston pressurized time in the 421 - the 501 step will be very reasonable on insurance. I agree in that a lot of Cirrus drivers and other piston SEL drivers make this step and their mentoring period is longer and premium more expensive than someone who presumably is coming out of a twin pressurized piston. Best to you if you make this move up 
_________________ Tom Hauge Wings Insurance National Sales Director E-mail: thauge@wingsinsurance.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 09:42 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 08/07/08 Posts: 5579 Post Likes: +4215 Location: Fort Worth, TX (KFTW)
Aircraft: B200, ex 58P
|
|
Username Protected wrote: What do you think the minimum total time requirements are to get insured as PIC in a 501? Chase- If you are flying a 421 now you'll have a very easy time of it to secure reasonable insurance in a step up to a 501 - the 501 hull value is low which helps (comparative to other owner flown light jets like a Mustang, Phenom 100, Legacy CJs etc) and if you have twin multi-piston pressurized time in the 421 - the 501 step will be very reasonable on insurance. I agree in that a lot of Cirrus drivers and other piston SEL drivers make this step and their mentoring period is longer and premium more expensive than someone who presumably is coming out of a twin pressurized piston. Best to you if you make this move up  Would the transition from a B200 be any easier than from a 421?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 09:44 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 03/09/11 Posts: 1764 Post Likes: +825 Company: Wings Insurance Location: Eden Prairie, MN / Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Would the transition from a B200 be any easier than from a 421? Hi Greg- Absolutely as you are already insured in the turbine MEL class - so a shorter jump than someone coming from the piston MEL class. It is really a very easy leap to make and as noted the hull value of the 501 keeps this reasonable for most people coming from the noted classes of aircraft.
_________________ Tom Hauge Wings Insurance National Sales Director E-mail: thauge@wingsinsurance.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 12:55 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1610 Post Likes: +1681 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I run mine at 650 ITT all the time and will regularly true out at 365 @ 950lbs/hr in cruise. Chris, at what altitudes are you getting that much air and fuel through yours???? Hi John,
If you go back a few pages in this thread, there is a discussion: viewtopic.php?p=3206462#p3206462 I think a huge difference is that my engines run a lot hotter than yours (which makes sense since I'm burning more fuel). You are hitting your N1 limit at 625 ITT and it looks like 91 N2 with 800lbs fuel flow. Depending on outside temps, to get 102.1 N1 I am at 650 ITT, 94.5 N2, and 950lbs fuel flow. If you read through the thread starting at the link above, Tarver chimes in that difference combinations of stators and things inside the engine can cause engines to run hotter or cooler with accompanying more or less power.
For all I know, I may be looking at super expensive hot sections down the line but that's a good 13 or so years from now. By then a few more 501s may have Gone West and I can just buy another set from Tarver's JT15D vending machine.
Obviously I'll keep observing and noting any changes. I assume that if I am eating my HT wheels, I will start to notice lower N1 (and TAS) speeds for the same temp, fuel flow, and N2 speeds.
I'm also curious what your CG looks like on a typical flight? I am often banging up against the rear limit on my plane. This lowers drag by minimizing the downforce required from the horizontal stabilizer.
Here's another shot from last October:
Attachment: PXL_20231015_163402883.jpg
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|