Well, if all of the above is true then the only downside seems to be that it is an Eclipse and what to do if the company goes under? Are they selling new planes? Do you think you'd ever be able to sell one if you bought one?

I think there's a bit more to it than that; it's what I was really trying to independently weigh. I was getting a lot of opinions, but many were short on facts. We had confirmation the plane made book numbers, but I didn't really dig into the ownership side: just too many variables on the deal at which I was looking.

If $2.2 to 2.3 MM is doable for you, I'd pay the $25 or so to get on the Eclipse owner's board. I was on there a bit through an owner and just didn't get to the point I was comfortable. If it does everything is says and the systems all are installed and work, it could be a great little plane. All the pilots I speak with flying them love it, but they aren't paying the bills.

The problem for me was they were still upgrading old planes before producing new ones. Many of those were the old Day Jet fleet planes. So, you're kinda paying for a new plane that was used by a commercial operator. A lot of current owners aren't happy. I know a fella here that parked his in a hanger and purchased a Mustang. The Eclipse just sits.

There were many issues with the old planes and those filter through to the company now. The avionics system is fully integrated. It could be very expensive to repair and what if it's not supported in the future? There's an AD now to put the ceiling at FL300 until they get some issues worked out. Lots to consider before putting that much money at risk IMO.

If you look at the early Citation fleet, there were a bunch of AD/SBs as the fleet gathered time. One could purchase an Eclipse and have the risk of these because it's still a rather low time plane produced by a relatively new firm.

FIKI, was an issue they say is now solved, but unless you purchase a Total Eclipse from the factory, existing planes probably don't have it. There's a lot to wade through to understand everything. You need factual information--straight talk.

It was a shame to fly the plane I did with no FIKI, a
Garmin 496 for gps navigation, and several other issues for such a beautiful plane.
Of course, if I put my money in, it was all going to be fixed, but I've heard that before and didn't want to go through all the brain damage to find out what was going to be done, when, and what it would cost; then, to monitor it. I'm just too busy at work. Flying is supposed to be fun for me, or get me somewhere I need to be.

Best,

Dave

What's with the Avio avionics? Why such a strange system?

No, $2.2 million does not interest me for this little plane. But the ones advertised for $1.7 do interest me. But I guess those don't have all the upgrades.

Seems like a good time to watch and wait.

There are other folks that know a lot more about why Avio was selected than I would. To me, it's an issue. Rather than going with proven, main stream product, another was selected. Eclipse had a lot of orders at one time and was trying to get a lot done to meet deadlines. I'm sure some compromises were made.

I'm where you are. I kept looking at planes that were less than what I quoted. In each case, it wasn't the Total Eclipse. Many were in the low $1MM range, but they needed more upgrades. The more I looked at it, the more convinced I became I would have $2,2 MM in a plane to have it in the shape I wanted with proper factory support. If one purchased the cheaper plane, they would have to deal with the factory to get all the upgrades: it would take a lot of time and know how from what I saw. The factory is trying to clear existing inventory out so they can produce new planes. Some old planes will get support and others will have a more difficult time.

You're a good businessman from what I see, you wouldn't pay retail for something that wasn't complete, proven, and performing with some guarantee/warranty. If you had to solve problems, you'd want a discount for the time and risk you took to solve the problems. Same here.

For those that are owners, no choice, they have to get 'em fixed of sell them for parts. For someone that's now an owner, you have more options.

Best,

Dave

Even if everything was perfect with the company and plane, those Avio avionics are not gonna cut it long term. Where will upgrades come from? Who is Avio? Are they still around?

Garmin will never make an STC for the Eclipse. There aren't enough of them out there.

I really enjoyed watching that Eclipse take off with 6 adults on board though. It was awesome. Made me want.

I looked really hard at the Eclipse as well. 4 months ago fully upgraded ones could be had for just under $1.5m.

Avio is almost a non starter.
The Pratt and Whitney problem seems to lingering, and not every one will get the fix for free.

And now they are all soon to be four or five years old with an FAA life limit of 10 years. Is the New Eclipse really going to do the work to get the old airframes extended?

I agree with Dave, the most rational way in for the non speculator is new, but after:
-all the know problems are worked out and
- all the early/dirty model numbers (Day Jet) have been turned over.

But then, and at that price point, a two year old Mustang with the G1000 avionics looks pretty darn good.

That's the bottom line.

Hers a 2008 Mustang with 185tt. Make offer!!!
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... 175584.htm?

I understand why a person would buy an Eclipse. But, IMO it will have miserable dispatch reliability. That is where a similarly priced C90GT noses ahead. Proven technology.

We were tip to tip with a Mustang this morning awaiting release. My wife asked me what it was. The discussion continued on about cost (new and used). She noted that it must be in the $3M range because it has "those jet engines". (She is so cute.)

The discussion resumed enroute as we were plowing through clouds for 100 miles right at our altitude. With a Mustang, she wouldn't have to fret about that little problem, I explained to her.

And now this thread resulted in re-engagement again - oh look honey, I can get you one for under $2.2M. (And no, I wouldn't be interested in an Eclipse, cot notwithstanding.)

So now it comes down to one last thing. In the meantime, I love my A36.

Bear in mind that jet performance numbers are predicated on losing an engine at V1 and continuing the take off. Looks good with both motors running, but if that pilot had lost an engine at V1 it would have been less than awesome.

No doubt.

And since he has 2 of them, there's a pretty high probability.

No V1 or V2 is established for the Eclipse. It is certificated under Part 23 (Normal), not under Part 25 (Transport). All part 23 aircraft must weigh less than 6,000 pounds.

Maximum Gross weight (5,995) is established by that rule, not by performance.

One wonders what the max gross would have been if Eclipse had been able to get an exception.

Best...
John Deakin

That's the bottom line.

Hers a 2008 Mustang with 185tt. Make offer!!!
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... 175584.htm?

Interesting ... thanks for the correction.

Dave,

You probably know this but most turbine ads (especially the newer model years) don't show asking prices. Not sure where this phenomenon came from but I would say the majority of turbine ads have "call." And oddly, I had a price listed for the last turbine aircraft I sold for someone (TBM 700C2) and the amount of interest jumped when I changed the ad to "call."

-Neal