This thread proves why I think the Citation is the better safer choice.

I try to be the best pilot I can but I don’t want an aircraft that’s sneaky and trying to kill me. I make enough mistakes on my own.

Same reason I didn’t love the PA-46. The landings were sketch if you didn’t pay attention and do just the right thing. I never had an issue with it but did have a couple times it woke me up early when learning in that plane.

I want a boring stable plane that’s forgiving. I have nothing to prove other than staying alive.

Mike

Come on! At least go fly a King Air before you say how bad they are.

There have been more than 7000 King Air variations built. If they are as bad as the Citation crowd makes them sound, how come they have been so successful. Personally, I am more concerned with turning off the inverter and avionics switch instead of the ignitors in a 500 series Citation than I am with PLM.

No thanks.

Glad others that want to fly King airs have that option. I personally have zero interest in really any twin turboprop. I am fine with others that like them.

You are right clearly the KA does things good for the ones that fly them.

I was also worried about the inverter switch by the ignitors. That’s why I got a GI-275. At least if all hell breaks loose I can fly from that.

Mike

The reasons PLM is far more dangerous:

1. The machine does PLM to you, and does it silently.

2. PLM occurs right at rotation, the most dangerous time, rather than at some much higher altitude.

3. PLM results in loss of control, in all weather. Most PLM crashes happen in nice weather.

4. There is a battery powered back up attitude indicator on all Citations. PLM has no backup and feats the autofeather safety system, too.

5. Sims don't seem the able to recreate PLM, but they sure can recreate electrical power loss.

6. History wise, King Airs are crashing from PLM frequently. I am not aware of ANY Citation crash from the ignitor confusion problem.

PLM is vastly more dangerous than the ignitor switch problem.

Mike C.

The reasons PLM is far more dangerous:

1. The machine does PLM to you, and does it silently.

2. PLM occurs right at rotation, the most dangerous time, rather than at some much higher altitude.

3. PLM results in loss of control, in all weather. Most PLM crashes happen in nice weather.

4. There is a battery powered back up attitude indicator on all Citations. PLM has no backup and feats the autofeather safety system, too.
5. Sims don't seem the able to recreate PLM, but they sure can recreate electrical power loss.

6. History wise, King Airs are crashing from PLM frequently. I am not aware of ANY Citation crash from the ignitor confusion problem.

PLM is vastly more dangerous than the ignitor switch problem.

Mike C.

Seems easy enough. loop some fishing line around the base of the SIM Left power lever and tie a ring on the end for the sim instructor. Pull just as the trainee lets go of the power levers to put the gear up.

If they let go of the power levers earlier than that they must buy lunch. Pilots are cheap so it will get the point across. PLM at rotation won't happen anymore. No two handed rotations.

Hand off power levers at V1 is standard practice.

Mike C.

Not in the King Air, Mike. Right hand doesn't come off the PL's until gear retraction. KA's don't need horsed off the runway with a two-handed rotation like a jet.

There are a number of cases where that is clearly not the case. King Airs that crashed with the gear out within seconds of rotation. KADS is an example.

Mike C.

As usual with BT we have several people opining vociferously about airplanes they know very little about, often in defense of a purchase decision they made.

King Airs are great airplanes. Citations are great airplanes. They both have pros and cons, and also have weak spots.

No airplane is perfect.

Robert

Not sure you can say we know very little about other aircraft. I spent over a year looking at KA’s. Read every article I could find and read every crash report from the previous 10 years. Also talked to owners and brokers of KA’s. I actually put in two offers on KA’s. There is a ton of information for the people that research.

The more I learned the less excited I got about the KA and looked for alternatives. I do not think flying a KA would have changed my mind or the data.

I made the choice I made from research and analysis. And I am very happy with my legacy jet. I find many buyers do not understand or research what they are buying. Monkey see monkey do.

I do agree that no aircraft is perfect or fits the mission 100%. You really need 3-4 aircraft to do that. Haha. So I am glad there are choices and I don’t judge why others choose what they do. But I can share my perspective.

Mike

Well... except the Piaggio

>The panel went completely dead right after. Fortunately he was able to do a 180 and then figured out what he did...


I was on an ILS in my travel air and the flashing strobes and cloud puffs flying in and out of the landing light was disorienting as I was approaching minimums so I reached down to turn off the whole row of light switches.

I also turned off the avionics master...
Oops... stuff happens.

Hand off power levers at V1 is standard practice.

Mike C.

I'll play Devil's advocate here and defend Beech. If you leave a gust lock installed and crash... is it their fault?

The friction knobs are there for a reason. If the airplane was designed without them, that would be a problem.

The pilot should check the friction locks prior to each and every flight. As Norm pointed out they can break, so pulling back gently on the levers will ensure they are functioning properly.

It is also good to check yours to see what happens if the friction locks are not set, so that you know how they behave.

Again, the King Air is a VERY safe aircraft, when you consider over 8000 airframes produced and over 62 MILLION fleet hours, no other aircraft compares.

This thread is about King Air 350's, which have a nearly impeccable record, if it wasn't for an incompetent pilot, the fleet would have zero fatality crashes in the US. There have been over 1400 King Air 350/ 350 variants produced. That's a lot of airplanes for so few fatality crashes.