BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Jan 2018, 17:01

More than often I am at FL270/280 and having a smooth ride and the airlines are in the mid thirties bitching about the ride.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2018, 11:14

Username Protected wrote:

"Twin fans" are a dying breed. The market speaks. In a few years there won't be any "twin fans".

This was my view as I walked to get outta dodge yesterday.........weather btw was great in the islands.........gonna miss not working

There was not a single KA on the ramp. Bunch of frigging jets, and some big ones to boot..........I think that the PC12 has nailed this market because of efficiency, reliability, loading and load capacity, and then range. Coupled with ease of operation and I bet that everyone will agree that the PC12 NG is a very, very easy airplane to fly and operate and you have a congo line that resembles the one below at most airports these days.

Attachment:

MYAM_PilatusLine.jpg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2018, 11:57

Username Protected wrote:

More than often I am at FL270/280 and having a smooth ride and the airlines are in the mid thirties bitching about the ride.

This is my experience also.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2018, 14:55

They bitch about the ride no matter what. LOL. That’s seems like all I hear on the radio. But maybe that’s because I fly around the Rockies.

Mike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2018, 16:24

Next month will be 43 years since I got my Private Pilots License. I have spent a reasonable amount of time down low in pistons (< 3000'), little higher in pistons
(< 10'000), same altitudes in non pressurized turbo props (C208B), higher yet in pressurized turbo props (<FL230), little higher in higher performance turbo props
(<FL 280), little higher jets (<FL350), and higher yet in better performing jets
(<FL450). There is and can be turbulence everywhere - it can and will be again across the spectrum of intensity. My conclusion after doing this for a while in a fair amount of aircraft - generally having the ability to go higher will result in a better chance of finding smooth rides.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2018, 17:58

Username Protected wrote:

BTW, Textron is sold out of KA models until at least the beginning of Q2 '18.

Is this because they have not made any?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Jan 2018, 23:59

Username Protected wrote:

BTW, Textron is sold out of KA models until at least the beginning of Q2 '18.

Is this because they have not made any?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 00:25

Username Protected wrote:

Just a quick look... I believe Textron sold 70 King Airs last year.

Any idea of break down between governmental/fleet vs GA retail?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 08:59

Username Protected wrote:

More than often I am at FL270/280 and having a smooth ride and the airlines are in the mid thirties bitching about the ride.

This is my experience also.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 09:02

Username Protected wrote:

Is this because they have not made any?

Just a quick look... I believe Textron sold 70 King Airs last year.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 09:38

Username Protected wrote:

I often wonder if ATC's primary en route function is ride reports. That seems to be about 80% of the radio traffic. Usually flying 27-28 myself I sometimes check in with "smooth" in my initial callup just to rub it in...

I agree. I always make fun of the guys constantly asking for ride reports. I've never asked for a different altitude for a better "ride",.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 10:25

Username Protected wrote:

Just a quick look... I believe Textron sold 70 King Airs last year.

Any idea of break down between governmental/fleet vs GA retail?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 11:16

Username Protected wrote:

Just a quick look... I believe Textron sold 70 King Airs last year.

Of the 70 units, three went to foreign governments and eight went to Wheels Up.

Pilatus sold 76 PC-12's in the same time period, beating the King Air by 7 units.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 11:35

Username Protected wrote:

OK, apologies in advance for the thread drift... when the Denali finally comes out, will it take a bite out of KA sales, take a bite out of Pilatus sales or grow the SETP market?

My guess is that it will take a bite out of Pilatus sales. Here my guess....

1) KA buyers want two spinny things. If they did not, then they would go to Pilatus. My guess is that the number of KA buyers who stick with KA out of a sense of Beech/Textron/Cessna loyalty when they really want an SETP, are limited at best.... if they even exist.

2) There is no real competition, no direct heads up to the Pilatus right now in terms of capabilities, speed, payload in the SETP market. The Denali will be the first heads up competitor to the Pilatus.

3) Unlikely that the Denali will grow the SETP market. The GA market is what it is.

Only caveat to the above is if there is more margin in the SETP and Beech/Textron/Cessna push the Denali over one or more of the KA models in their sales efforts.

Textron launching the Denali is Textron conceding to the "single v twin" debate. Textron will be selling the Denali against the KA and the PC12. The Denali is going to be damn nice with a lot of options unavailable on KA's. If the KA line were updated over the years I wouldn't feel this way. It's been left behind. It's diminishing sales have less to do with it being a twin and more to do with it never getting the upgrades other comparably sized and priced airplanes have. Pilatus/Denali is NOT a single engine KA. It's not like comparing Bonanza to Baron. Just compare horsepower to KA. Pilatus/Denali is a completely different animal.

Pilatus will answer Textron with a faster, better PC12.

I believe the business jet and the KA line will suffer the most in the battle between Denali and PC12.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2018, 12:10

Username Protected wrote:

OK, apologies in advance for the thread drift... when the Denali finally comes out, will it take a bite out of KA sales, take a bite out of Pilatus sales or grow the SETP market?

My guess is that it will take a bite out of Pilatus sales. Here my guess....

1) KA buyers want two spinny things. If they did not, then they would go to Pilatus. My guess is that the number of KA buyers who stick with KA out of a sense of Beech/Textron/Cessna loyalty when they really want an SETP, are limited at best.... if they even exist.

2) There is no real competition, no direct heads up to the Pilatus right now in terms of capabilities, speed, payload in the SETP market. The Denali will be the first heads up competitor to the Pilatus.

3) Unlikely that the Denali will grow the SETP market. The GA market is what it is.

Only caveat to the above is if there is more margin in the SETP and Beech/Textron/Cessna push the Denali over one or more of the KA models in their sales efforts.

Textron launching the Denali is Textron conceding to the "single v twin" debate. Textron will be selling the Denali against the KA and the PC12. The Denali is going to be damn nice with a lot of options unavailable on KA's. If the KA line were updated over the years I wouldn't feel this way. It's been left behind. It's diminishing sales have less to do with it being a twin and more to do with it never getting the upgrades other comparably sized and priced airplanes have. Pilatus/Denali is NOT a single engine KA. It's not like comparing Bonanza to Baron. Just compare horsepower to KA. Pilatus/Denali is a completely different animal.

Pilatus will answer Textron with a faster, better PC12.

I believe the business jet and the KA line will suffer the most in the battle between Denali and PC12.

The Ultimate Pilatus PC12 Thread!