BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 15:18

Username Protected wrote:

Thanks Scott! Exactly what I'm trying to weigh.

Dave

At $2.2 million, there's not much for me to weigh....

If it was $1 million, I'd be selling the Bo right now.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 15:55

Username Protected wrote:

Thanks Scott! Exactly what I'm trying to weigh.

Dave

At $2.2 million, there's not much for me to weigh....

If it was $1 million, I'd be selling the Bo right now.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 16:01

Username Protected wrote:

hey, aren't you the guy who has said a number of times [paraphrasing] "I don't care what it costs to buy, I care what it costs to fly."

Yes, but at $2.2 million you can have a CJ. I don't care about acquisition cost as much as operating cost but if you have 2 planes that cost the same to acquire and operate, I'll take the better of the 2. In this case, it would be the CJ.

When you get down to $1 million for a jet, you are really in a different realm compared to everything else. CJ, TBM, PC12 etc are not going to be $1 million ever. $2.2 million for a TBM vs $3 million for a PC12, I'll take the PC12. But both are a lot more than $1 million.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 16:04

Username Protected wrote:

hey, aren't you the guy who has said a number of times [paraphrasing] "I don't care what it costs to buy, I care what it costs to fly."

Yes, but at $2.2 million you can have a CJ. I don't care about acquisition cost as much as operating cost but if you have 2 planes that cost the same to acquire and operate, I'll take the better of the 2. In this case, it would be the CJ.

When you get down to $1 million for a jet, you are really in a different realm compared to everything else. CJ, TBM, PC12 etc are not going to be $1 million ever. $2.2 million for a TBM vs $3 million for a PC12, I'll take the PC12. But both are a lot more than $1 million.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 16:08

I think that was the original plan for the Eclipse... To be at $1million or slightly over. I remember the sales guy telling me a few years ago that the Eclipse was "the Bonanza of the 21st Century. At $1million, it would be. At $2 million plus it's lost in a sea of better airplanes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 16:13

I read that there is a 10,000 hour or ten year Eclipse airframe life limit?

Is that true? If so I would think any potential purchaser would want that addressed first by the new Eclipse organization, or at least the 10 year part. A lot of them are already 4 years old!

I searched the TCDS for this but could not find it: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... 0002AC.pdf

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 16:54

There is an excellent, well-annotated, fairly exhaustive Wiki article on the history of this project here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... e_Aviation

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 17:01

Username Protected wrote:

When you get down to $1 million for a jet, you are really in a different realm compared to everything else. CJ, TBM, PC12 etc are not going to be $1 million ever. $2.2 million for a TBM vs $3 million for a PC12, I'll take the PC12. But both are a lot more than $1 million.

Am I misreading this? there are several used TBM-700s on Controller.com now for $1,000,000 and there are several used CJs with ASKING prices near $1,000,000?

Best,

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 19:17

Serial number 247

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Mar 2011, 19:20

Username Protected wrote:

When you get down to $1 million for a jet, you are really in a different realm compared to everything else. CJ, TBM, PC12 etc are not going to be $1 million ever. $2.2 million for a TBM vs $3 million for a PC12, I'll take the PC12. But both are a lot more than $1 million.

Am I misreading this? there are several used TBM-700s on Controller.com now for $1,000,000 and there are several used CJs with ASKING prices near $1,000,000?

Best,

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2011, 16:55

Just met with an Eclipse owner and checked the plane out........

I wasn't impressed until......... He loaded up 5 passengers and took off on a 700nm trip. How is this possible?

He took off using very little runway and was outta here. It was impressive.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2011, 17:56

Username Protected wrote:

Just met with an Eclipse owner and checked the plane out........

I wasn't impressed until......... He loaded up 5 passengers and took off on a 700nm trip. How is
this possible?

He took off using very little runway and was outta here. It was impressive.

Small people... Or loaded over gross weight.
I've been looking at one for our 135 charter certificate, and they don't have the uiseful load or space to carry , or stay in CG the people you would think.
Of course lots of people fly over gross and out of CG...
Cool airplane for sure. Not a panacea.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2011, 18:00

Username Protected wrote:

Just met with an Eclipse owner and checked the plane out........

I wasn't impressed until......... He loaded up 5 passengers and took off on a 700nm trip. How is this possible?

He took off using very little runway and was outta here. It was impressive.

You can go to mission profiler on their site and it will show ranges with different payloads and some other conditions. It seems a bit klunky but has worked for me.

http://www.eclipseaerospace.net/mission_profiler/

Best,

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2011, 18:01

They weren't little people. 3 men, 3 women plus bags and fuel. I'm sure they were over gross. The plane didn't seem to struggle at all.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2011, 18:10

The allure for me, as I've said before, is it has very close to the same capability as my 58P as far as payload, but goes higher, faster and has near the same fuel burn for a trip.

I put in ADS (Addison) to SEE (San Diego) and it shows 2:55; fuel burn of 209 gallons at 347 knots at FL350. That's five hours in my Baron with about the same fuel consumption. Payload is 755 pounds which is 100 more than my Baron with full fuel. Of course, this is on the end of the range envelope and with any headwind, I'd have to stop. If I was cleared lower or got step ups out of Dallas, I'd have o stop. So, let's just say, I'd have to stop. But with any headwind, I have to stop in my Baron also.

Addison to El Paso ( 540 miles) it shows a payload of over 1,300 pounds. The sweet spot seems to be the 700 to 800 mile trip if you're carrying a lot.

Best,

Dave

Eclipse demo flight tomorrow.