Tom,

How many times are going to write the same thing in this thread?

You're like a broken record.

Babar,

I never said this wasn't a difficult situation. I hope it never happens to me.

But again, this innocent bystander is DEAD. He's a young father of 2. He's minding his own business running down the beach. He's not a pilot. He did not sign on for the risks of GA.

If you have a problem with your airplane, it's your responsibility to insure you don't make it someone else's problem in an effort to save your own skin. This is not the same thing as losing one on takeoff and barreling into a house. This guy had enough control of his airplane to land on the beach. This guy had enough time to decide he would land on the beach. So stop telling me how "out of control" he was.

I'm sorry this stance pisses you guys off. I thought pilots were supposed to be the manliest, toughest people around. You guys sound like a bunch of "F you, I'll save my own ass" folks.

Here's a good question........ Who wants to bet he gets charged with manslaghter? Not saying he'll go to jail. But I'll bet he gets charged.

Do I feel for the guy? Yes. Do I think he should go to jail? NO. Do I think he may commit suicide over this? YES.

WOW. As a 3 week Bonanza owner after years of Cessna ownership, its not quite the genteel owner community I expected. I am a little surprised someone can post "selfish a@@hole" and "fuk him" and then be surprised at the response. Further to then claim that you didn't call anyone names or show disrespect....

Robert, Jason
Until you have been in his shoes, it is really not fair to judge him. Accidents happen, and this WAS an accident, occasionally people die. This guy had no intention of killing anyone, and I am sure that he didn't see the jogger. I promise that there are more accidents that kill innocent lives on the highways every day, should we prosecute all of those? I hope that neither of you are ever put into that situation, losing an engine in a single is not fun, I am speaking from experience. Like Kelly McBride said, your brain kind of shrinks to the size of a pea. The amount of disbelief of what is taking place sets in and then you realize you have a problem.

I am sure he will get charged, after all, we live in a sue happy world where there is no such thing as an accident, thanks to a bunch of crooked lawyers, corrupt politicians and the media who kisses all of their behinds.

Jim --

Welcome to Beecthtalk, and never fear: this thread is not representative of the overall tone or content of this site.

In Jason's defense, though, he didn't call anyone those names and I think he's shown remarkable restraint here: he's been told to shut up, been called an "inexperienced pilot," and been told he's no gift to women . . . all by a few BTers who happen to disagree with him because he agreed with me. Yves and Mike got booted for being wiseasses; never did they personalize everything like I've read in this thread.

Overall, I'd say this thread has run its course. Most folks obviously think this man is dead because of an unavoidable accident, so why don't we all just leave it at that and move on?

I don't know why so many of you are so bent out of shape.

This is a great topic for a discussion. I have made points. Many of you don't agree.

I have NOT called anyone names. I have not been disrespectful. I have not treated anyone any differently than if you were sitting in front of me.

Why are so many of you so hostile? I guarantee you wouldn't talk the way you do if I was sitting in front of you.

Now there's one thing we can agree on! PLEASE!!

I'm finished with this BS, guys, I'm done reading this post. It's embarrassing and pathetic.

Two things....I AM headed for the beach in this scenario...every time.

And I'm sticking with that old saw; "Innocent 'till proven guilty."

Great point Paul, $1M has not been enough for a long time; considering the damage potential that aircraft have. If you have significant assets to protect I recommend getting an excess policy or higher limits when possible.

It's estimated that the average wrongful death settlement in the US arising from aviation losses is $5M per person. This is an average that includes the lowest of settlements to the highest of settlements (for folks with high earning potential, dependents, etc...)

Alejandro

You can get $1M or $2M from most insurers and then purchase excess to bring you up to around $5M.

$10M is possible in a fleet scenario but rare for a single GA airplane.

I wasn't going to add gasoline to this fire, but I remembered the old saw about evil only existing on the sufferance of good men...I may not be a good man, but I do feel a need to push back here.

This thread, for the most part, is one of the most discourteous, inappropriate and just plain non-Beechtalk threads that I have seen. I am embarassed for our community...especially for how we appear to those who have just joined us.

Y'all ought to take your conjectures somewhere else and not litter this thread with your insults and threats. This is a fine place to come for friendly conversation...but this thread is the worst example of the worst of us.

I can go to any number of sites to see insults, threats and unfair conjecture. I come to this one for information and, yes, fellowship. It ain't in this thread.

And to save the keystrokes for those who like this sort of crap, no, I am NOT the lifeguard here. Nor do I have any dogs in this race.

But I am a member of this forum...and I am offended and troubled by what has happened in this thread.

Jim

Hey Jason,

Not calling any one names or being hostile, but I will tell you one thing.... until you have actually had an engine failure, you will not know how your mind and body will react to the "aw-shits" moment of an engine failure. Simulated engine failures and ones you practice on a flight simulator are way too tame for the real thing. I lost my engine and learned a lot about myself in the six minutes it took me to get the plane down on I-70. By the way, Hi-Tension wires are way more difficult to spot at 100 Kts while descending at 1000 fpm and bridges only become visible when you are aligned for the final touch down. The number of decisions you have to make, each one being crucial to your survival, are probably in the hundreds when your engine is out and are a variation on the following theme:

1. Have you actually lost your engine (probably a non-event in a twin)
2. Balls to the walls, maybe it'll sputter back to life
3. Remove headset - no noise - BAAAADDD
- You have already lost about 500-1000 ft of Altitude -
4. Aviate - Navigate - Communicate
4. What was your direction of flight
5. What is wind direction
6. Is there a cloud deck below or can you see the ground
7. How far is the nearest airport - can you do mental math to calc if you can make it. SURE !
8. Are you ready to give up what you can SEE for some option some miles away where weather could be a factor ?
- You have lost another 500 to 1000 ft of Altitude -
9. What is the glide speed - set up for best glide
10. What are landing options - county roads, fields, Interstate, Airport, granite, ocean
11. Hi Tension Wires in the area (now I routinely identify them as I fly)
12. Are you in IMC
13. When will you drop your gear
14. Flaps or no Flaps
- You have lost another 500-1000 ft of Altitude -
15. Where the heck is the check list
16. Go thru the 5-10 steps to attempt a restart - no dice
- You have lost another 500-1000 ft of Altitude -
17. Check List is not helping - go to emergency section
18. When do you crack open the door
19. How are the obstructions looking on the ground - Hi-Tension wires, bridges, moving traffic on the highway !
- You have lost another 3000 ft of Altitude -

This is just a sampling, now consider if you had not just lost the engine, but rather had a catastrophic engine failure or prop separation. There is further trauma added to your thinking. This is when you realize how badly "it" has hit the fan. Are you the kind of person that can compartmentalize issues and problems to allow you to focus on solutions rather than dwelling on the problem - you won't know until you have gone through this in real time. Therefore, to sit in front of our computers and theorize is really easy, but the decisions and actions one takes in the real emergency are way more complicated and to summarily condemn a pilot to jail time for manslaughter is unjustified and would be expected of an ignorant media "person" and not from a pilot. By the way, having passengers along further complicates the decision making process.

...be safe.

...Babar.

Adam,
As one who has been here only a few weeks, that is good to hear. Thanks.

Adam,
As one who has been here only a few weeks, that is good to hear. Thanks.