Man, I read the first two pages and then skipped to the end. Does anyone have the current score? How many rounds is this fight scheduled for?

I agree. Maybe rename the thread McClure v Ciholas?


Robert T

I just need to know if this is a sanctioned match or an exhibition match? Also, are there current odds?

It’s like watching a candidate go into a debate without proper preparation though, Mike seems to have his ducks in row on these topics, even when he rants or goes off on a tangent about how the plane he chose is the best plane, some would say the greatest plane, many would agree the superior plane for just about any mission, anywhere, and many people will agree.

And then Chip gives a rambling anecdote that he’s there degrees removed from and can’t be verified, because he’s just too busy running his companies to follow through and definitely not spending his time on BT

Feels familiar at least

I like both folks and find value in their experience. Mike has corrected me at least once and I value his experience. The times I have talked to Chip, not always about aircraft, I have appreciated his experience and guidance.

What would BT be without the mental pugilism?

There is more than one way to do things and more than one way to get experience. Sometimes it is cheaper to hire that experience.

I wish Crandall was here for this thread.

Bob,
You are a gentleman, and you taught me a new word. Thank you! I miss Jason too.

Not always a gentleman but certainly appreciate these folks and your kind words. Thanks for keeping these old and new birds flying!

I read through the entire thread. I'll never get those 20 minutes back....

I still don't fully understand the disagreement. I used Chip to find my "off-market" 1993 Citation V. He did a great job.

Mike C. and I have corresponded many times dating back to our MU2 days. He's one of the smartest guys I've met.

I bought my first Citation from Michael Tarver and he replaced a bad motor no questions asked on a 40 y/o airplane!

Here is what I have learned in 5 years of legacy Citation ownership.

How much one spends to maintain these planes can vary wildly. Follow Tarvers advice. Borescope and hire a pilot that knows how the plane should fly. Everything else is easy and relatively cheap.

Here is an example:
During the pre-buy when I was selling my 501sp, a large shop in Ft Worth told the potential buyer that my front windscreens were trash and they had to be replaced. 60-70k estimate, 3 months down, ruin the new paint job etc. I picked up the plane flew in home and hired an independent inspector that worked for United inspecting aircraft windows for 35 years. The buyer was spooked. I met the inspector at the airport and Facetimed the buyer as he inspected the windows in real time. I asked if the inspection was in anyway subjective. He said it wasn't and he invited me to crawl on the ladder and look through the prism myself. He couldn't find a single flaw in either windscreen. $60-70k disappeared and we closed the transaction.

Find people you trust with a good reputation.
Use common sense.
Trust but verify.
Ask questions.
Do your own research.

The last 5 years have been a cake walk in terms of reliability and MX costs. The only failure I experienced was a starter/generator that burnt up. The total cost was under 20k and less than 48 hours on the ground.

My first 18 months was a constant battle of little problems. Maybe a prebuy finds some of them, mostly not. Most items required very little cost to fix, they just required diligence in diagnosing them and fixing them. As you know, even small amounts of diagnostic effort can yield tremendous savings in costs.

I realize I, as an engineer, am better equipped than most in being able to analyze systems, debug issues, install loggers, etc. But I routinely help other people with their problems. This week, a fellow with an Ultra is having some issues with his ACM system and I wrote up a long post with ideas to help him (on CJP). I still get people with MU2s asking me for help, too.

Once I got past fixing the flurry of little problems, most of which the prior owner probably didn't even know existed, the plane has been remarkably reliable. I just spent 23 hours flying to Alaska and you don't do that if you think your ship is going to break down, especially in a place like PABR. Fixing it there would be a nightmare!


My worst event was the hydraulic leak which put me down 36 hours. I got raked on the labor due to hiring a "jet AOG shop" for the work. It was about a $10K event which would have been under $2K if it had happened at home base.

Otherwise, no failures.

I'll email you some questions I have about your starter episode.

Mike C.

Thank you Sir! I'm very thankful we got your airplane bought when we did, it was a really good buy that day, but looking back it was an unbelievable buy!!!