Yeah....this just isn't the case. Most business owners that can afford to fly PC-12's or Citations have built businesses that run without them through the support of well trained teams. A business owner that can't make time for the training in a V or PC-12 should reconsider in my opinion. A first class ticket or even charter would not require the time needed to train and would even allow one to get some work done in the back during the flight. Owners of these types of planes I suspect are justifying them with some business use but in reality the training and trips taken are just as much about getting away from work.

I don't understand how anyone can argue that higher barriers into anything doesn't result in less users, I'm sorry. That does not compute with reality.

Max is rarely outwardly critical of anything, so you have to read between the lines. I gathered that he initially thought the VJ was "cool" because it was a major step up from the piston he was flying before, but he quickly became disenchanted with its low speed/climb rate/max altitude (and being treated like a TP by ATC). He also expressed his concern in one video of the possibility of a bird being sucked in the (only) engine.

We ultimately learned that Max's end-game was to fly his father from NY to Bermuda, so it was a foregone conclusion that the VJ was not going to cut it. Even the M2 didn't cut it.

Yes. It's called a turboprop.

Yeah....this just isn't the case. Most business owners that can afford to fly PC-12's or Citations have built businesses that run without them through the support of well trained teams. A business owner that can't make time for the training in a V or PC-12 should reconsider in my opinion. A first class ticket or even charter would not require the time needed to train and would even allow one to get some work done in the back during the flight. Owners of these types of planes I suspect are justifying them with some business use but in reality the training and trips taken are just as much about getting away from work.

If you need a CJ3, there's little doubt you'd be unsatisfied with anything less, M2, or VJ or a SR22T or a Lockwood AirCam.

Having flown the M2 and the VJ, they're very different animals. The reason to have either are very different and what one can reasonably expect from either is very different.

The SF50 VisionJet fits right into the same range as SETP. Arguments are valid for anything in that range, but honestly, I found the SF50 more comfortable than anything in its range.

If your spouse refuses to get on anything with a propeller, there ya go. Perfect reason.

Why are we comparing an SF50 to a CJ3 that costs 2.5x? The SF50 should be compared to the M600 and E1000. The Eclipse would probably cost around $3M today, but since you can’t buy a new one and there is no factory support that isn’t a reasonable comparison. The SF50 competes well with the M600 and E1000. Just depends on ones mission and desired factory support resources and certainty of existence.

Exactly, and the cabin is far superior in the Cirrus and it's quieter.

You could say the same for a College education.

There is utility in investing time into a capability that then becomes useful at some critical moment.


You are incorrect for many, so don't assume your inability to make aviation work applies to others.

You also forget the time I am saving for my passengers.

Just did a business trip in the V that would have cost 5 man days more than using airlines and FedEx. It changed a 4 day trip into a 2 day trip and greatly eased the effort to move the materials used in the project.

Mike C.

Those pilots are EXACTLY the ones who need the training.

Their insurance might already prescribe it anyway.

If we cut down accidents, they may save the 10% in premiums. Less accidents means less cost for all of us.

Being under budget but dead isn't of much use.

Mike C.

No you didn't. Not when you factor in your training cost and purchase costs. You could have flown them on Emirates First class via Maldives for less. And you've spent 6 months training for a trip that saved you 2 days. You're simply neglecting the part which is (and has been) my whole point: you're personal interest in it. And the clouding that does to your rationalization.

It's OK to love flying. But let's be truthful about how much time and money it saves.

Sure did. Saved 5 man days for my employees.


You should heed you own words and stop assuming what you know about others.

The fact you can't make it work says something about you, but the rest of the world may be different.

Mike C.

Sure did. Saved 5 man days for my employees.


You should heed you own words and stop assuming what you know about others.

The fact you can't make it work says something about you, but the rest of the world may be different.

Mike C.

Virtually every client I have was achieved after visiting them using the airplane.

Nothing is as effective as an on site visit to close the deal.

Mike C.

Virtually every client I have was achieved after visiting them using the airplane.

Nothing is as effective as an on site visit to close the deal.

Mike C.