BeechTalk - BT - Cessna Citation 500 Series vs Citation Jet 525 Series

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 21:45

Username Protected wrote:

Quote:

Proline or kln90b. What would be harder? Lol.

If the Collins was not so integrated, I would say that damned KLN90B....
Sure could do a lot with it though. That was the best the KA 300 I flew had.
On second thought I had ForeFlight and an I Pad...!

In the last year I actively flew Citations with Proline 21, GTNs, GNS5XX/4XX, kLN90B, Univeral FMS, Global XL? FMS. Biggest risk is during an emergency situation remebering what the buttonology is.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:01

I’ve been flying a CJ with a KLN90B, if it would do an LPV approach it would be ok with me. Tom Clements sent me a DVD he made on it back in the day, two hours later and I was ready to go. I imagine it was the bee’s knees when it came out.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:04

Username Protected wrote:

I’ve been flying a CJ with a KLN90B, if it would do an LPV approach it would be ok with me. Tom Clements sent me a DVD he made on it back in the day, two hours later and I was ready to go. I imagine it was the bee’s knees when it came out.

Oh no doubt. Put one in my 310 back in the 90’s. Thought I hit the big time. The moving map was the Bom. :rofl:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:09

Jason, if the PC12 did not exist, what would have been the airplane after your Bo?

Mike, if the MU2 did not exist, what would you be flying right now?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:10

Username Protected wrote:

Oh no doubt. Put one in my 310 back in the 90’s. Thought I hit the big time. The moving map was the Bom. :rofl:

Oh, you mean the Super NAV page! Lol

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:11

Username Protected wrote:

Jason, if the PC12 did not exist, what would have been the airplane after your Bo?

When I bought the Pilatus I couldn't afford the CJ3. CJ3 has dropped $2MM plus since then. So at the time, if the Pilatus didn't exist it would have been Phenom 100.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:16

Username Protected wrote:

all my PC12 flights are 2 hours or less.

Mission radius under 500 nm, 2400 ft runways, VFR departures.

You don't have a jet mission profile.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:30

Username Protected wrote:

When I bought the Pilatus I couldn't afford the CJ3. CJ3 has dropped $2MM plus since then. So at the time, if the Pilatus didn't exist it would have been Phenom 100.

So, if you had a Phenom 100, would you sell it if the PC12 came along?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:34

Username Protected wrote:

Mike, if the MU2 did not exist, what would you be flying right now?

421C, maybe turbine Commander. 441 wasn't in reach. Merlin probably not. No SETP, too expensive. No PT6 twins, too expensive to operate. Besides 421C, no other pistons considered.

MU2 was an ideal fit, inexpensive to get, inexpensive to maintain, inexpensive to operate, high performance. Like everything else about it, it is unique.

I can get something else now, likely 441 or legacy Citation with emphasis on range, but it will be hard to give up the MU2 economics.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:36

Username Protected wrote:

When I bought the Pilatus I couldn't afford the CJ3. CJ3 has dropped $2MM plus since then. So at the time, if the Pilatus didn't exist it would have been Phenom 100.

So, if you had a Phenom 100, would you sell it if the PC12 came along?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:43

Username Protected wrote:

421C, maybe turbine Commander. 441 wasn't in reach. Merlin probably not. No SETP, too expensive. No PT6 twins, too expensive to operate. Besides 421C, no other pistons considered.

MU2 was an ideal fit, inexpensive to get, inexpensive to maintain, inexpensive to operate, high performance. Like everything else about it, it is unique.

I can get something else now, likely 441 or legacy Citation with emphasis on range, but it will be hard to give up the MU2 economics.

Mike C.

It sounds like the incremental upgrade isn't worth it... At this time...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:43

Username Protected wrote:

99% of all "corporate aircraft" flights are 2 hours or less.

Then you want to go as far as you can in 2 hours.

Quote:

My "profile" isn't any different than everyone else here.

News flash: not everyone is like you.

The majority of my flying hours are trips over 500 nm, nearly always IFR, very rarely on 2400 ft runways.

My business is national, even global. If I could reach west coast in 4-5 hours, it would benefit my business quite a bit. Our customers tend to be in high tech centers like Seattle, Portland, San Jose, LA, Las Vegas. We already reach the east coast with the MU2 and have done well there.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:44

Username Protected wrote:

So I'm in the quandary of constantly weighing the option all the while flying myself everywhere I want to go anyways without a second thought to the cost. It's a hard spot to leave.

Very well said. I have the same quandary.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:50

Username Protected wrote:

No. I'd have moved to CJ3 or Phenom 300. I also know for a fact that I wouldn't have lasted long in a Phenom 100 because it can't haul enough far enough. Which of course is the same story I hear from a lot of mini jet owners. Once you're in a Pilatus, it does so much so well that you never make the move. CJ3/CJ4/Phenom 300/PC24 will be a lot more $$ to operate and lose in depreciation. So I'm in the quandary of constantly weighing the option all the while flying myself everywhere I want to go anyways without a second thought to the cost. It's a hard spot to leave.

I've said it a million times that once I move to the jet I'd never move back to the Pilatus. But I also acknowledge that moving to the jet has a lot more to do with vanity than performance.

If they can come out with a 320 knot Pilatus I'll never get the jet.

Your expectations of price and total performance have been "corrupted" by the PC12.

Many (not all) of your antagonists here on BT made the jump to a jet (theirs or their boss') before you.

It's funny, though, how intoxicating the idea of no propellor can be...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jun 2018, 22:52

Username Protected wrote:

My business is national, even global. If I could reach west coast in 4-5 hours, it would benefit my business quite a bit. Our customers tend to be in high tech centers like Seattle, Portland, San Jose, LA, Las Vegas. We already reach the east coast with the MU2 and have done well there.

Mike C.

If 99% of GA flight are 2 hours or less then everyone is like me.

Even with the jet I'll bet you do 4-5 hour flights once a month. You won't be going out and back every week I guarantee it.

A 1300NM flight a CJ4 saves me an hour or so. It's not taking my 5 hour flight and making it 30 minutes. The market doesn't lie. There's a reason there are so many PC12s flying.