Mike,

Just my two cents...

Buy a Citation V with very low engine times. No engine program needed and you can fly 1000 hours or more before even doing a HOT. It is a MUCH better airplane than the SII and is still considered viable. IMHO the biggest problem with the Williams SII is you have very expensive engines on a throw-away airframe.

The JT15D burns more gas... but you can buy 150,000 gallons of Jet A for what you'll save money wise.

It's all trade offs and what your mission is. When I flew the II the V was great. When I flew the V, folks talked about the next one.
Really, the II is a nice step up from my KA. No matter what you have, the next one does a bit more
I'm actually going back to the KA. It meets 90 percent of my mission requirements and is affordable. I wasn't using the II enough to stay proficient and was paying for the KA to sit when flying the II. So, I'm going back to steady ole C90 for awhile. Flying the II and V was fun, but it was more expensive, needed a co-pilot, didn't need two turbines and the missions for the C90 far exceeded those for the II and V.

Do the Williams engine conversions improve the S-II enough to make it worth while? It seems like it offers some decent improvements in overall performance, speed, range, payload, climb rate, etc. At least according to all the magazine-racers.

Would any of those things factor in its favor and make it worth the money?

If the stock S-II does everything you want, it would probably be easier to just get one of those and consider the aftermarket of used JT15D-4B as your maintenance program. I don't know much about jet engines, but the -4B seem to be less common than the -4 engines. I see them offered at $450k or so.

Now if I could get a copilot for free on every flight, then yes, two pilot plane okay.
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The Perfect Woman now needs a Pvt, Inst and MEL besides a father with a liquor store.

Good advise but let's not limit it to Williams....

I know of an operator who told me a couple of years ago they do below the 150 and negotiated a deal with Williams. This is not the deal Mike references with the 300 paid up. I'm going to follow them up about this if it is still the case.

Andrew

Evanston, IL would only be a 6 hour drive from Evansville, IN. :-)


Would you be happy with a piloting career where you get 125 hours a year sitting in the copilot seat doing nothing most of the time?

If I had to "design" my perfect copilot, it is someone who can spend most of their time doing something useful in my business (engineer, tech, manager), who has a passion for flying and is willing to get trained up on the jet. That is, another guy like me where the piloting isn't the career.

Mike C.

The 560 isn't that much different from an S550. Slightly stretched, has conventional deice, and stronger engines, but otherwise it is pretty much the same plane.

The 560 range is reduced from the S550 by quite a bit. Thirstier engines with heavier airframe. The 560 won't make west coast non stop in relatively common headwinds. The S550 JT15D will make it non stop far more often. The S550 FJ44 will do it nearly all the time.


I've noticed a tendency for brokers to label planes as throw away or passe, when they want clients to buy something more expensive.

I think the S550 with JT15D-4B is a viable airplane. The S550 with FJ44 is better performance than all 525 except the CJ4.

Mike C.

The "brochure numbers" sure seem like it improves the S550 a lot when you add FJ44 engines.

The S550 has a newer higher speed wing, which also allows it to land slower, than a 550. The wing carries more fuel than the II, and the FJ44 burns it less quickly. All that translates into a speed and range profile that none of the 525 series match except the CJ4 (and I bet the S550 FJ44 combo actually goes further).


The stock S550 is in consideration. The performance charts show it getting kind of wheezy to get to altitude, though. The plane is a bit under powered.

Mike C.

I know this wouldn't be an airplane that would be considered but I am curious what a comparison of a old ge-610 on Lear 20 series to these latest engines. Just overhaul and inspections.

Turn one of your employees into a pilot. Get a Citation X. Problem solved.

I am typed in the Citation X (Beechjet and Phenom 300 as well), live 7 minutes from Mike's office, and have been a VP of Sales for more than 20 years in the high tech industry (one of Mike's customers is a actually a company that I co-founded but we have never met). Sounds like a match made in heaven .

This is basically what I did for a couple years. Worked for an oil company as a project manager/engineer, and flew the Helo and King Air when nobody else was available, or I needed to go somewhere NOW.

Wasn't my primary job, but we couldn't really justify a second full time pilot either.

All our aircraft were single pilot capable, but we flew with 2 when able.

Brad,

You should stop in and say hi sometime!

Mike C.

Evanston, IL would only be a 6 hour drive from Evansville, IN. :-)


Would you be happy with a piloting career where you get 125 hours a year sitting in the copilot seat doing nothing most of the time?

If I had to "design" my perfect copilot, it is someone who can spend most of their time doing something useful in my business (engineer, tech, manager), who has a passion for flying and is willing to get trained up on the jet. That is, another guy like me where the piloting isn't the career.

Mike C.

That's what I did.