Not correct. There is the Exhaust AD

Though not the AD (wing spar) that you were thinking that Bob was referring to, which was never issued on the 421.

Yes - correct - the Cessna inspection has not been made mandatory so far on the 421, thus is not an "AD" - but in my opinion still worthy of consideration when compiling a short list.

Bob

Absolute bullshit, you have no idea what your talking about. Get back to the drawing board and come back with something believable. If this is your considered opinion then just leave and never come back...that is how bad it is.

"EDIT" yes it is that bad. Spreading lies about the 421 Cessna. Even though I don't own one I'll have none of it.

Right! Let's consider and AD that does not exist?

What floor mounted controls do you HATE stepping on in a 421?

He may be referring to the fuel controls. If so, I don't understand the issue.

This is ripe for babble talk...

Tim - I'll disagree on this again. The Aerostar has many attributes, but cabin comfort is not one of them. I know you have a soft spot for the Aerostar, and I'll even buy the fun-flying argument (which only pleases the pilot by the way), but attempting to say an Aerostar is more comfortable than a 421 is stretching it... Getting in and out of a 421 is a lot easier than an Aerostar. And then there is the part about loading luggage - lots of luggage - probably twice as much as would ever fit in an Aerostar - what can be a painful experience in an Aerostar, is a breeze in the 421.

Here is a 2014 article from Aviation Consumer magazine that summarizes the Aerostar's cabin experience fairly well (http://aerostar-owners.com/Documents/Av ... 082014.pdf):

Cabin Comfort and Load

Passengers are sometimes taken aback by having to enter the cabin by clambering over the pilot's seat; that's the only door in the airplane. Once inside, an Aerostar is reasonably comfortable, but no one would mistake it for a chapel; the noise level is quite high, especially in models without pressurization.

The cabin is more than 3 inches wider than a 55-series Baron's, but 3 inches narrower than a Cessna 310's and has 2 inches less headroom. Many owners have taken out one of the middle seats to make more space in the cabin. For a cabin-class airplane, it's on the tight side.

It's also not a great carrier. An Aerostar is hard-pressed to carry even five adults, their bags and a reasonable load of fuel.

If I were in the market for a piston pressurized twin with the mission described in the OP, the 421 would be my choice. But the best advice I could give is find a good sample of each and go for a test flight. I'm sure there are plenty BTers who would be happy to oblige and you would get a clearer picture of what you'd be flying and having to live with.

Have you flown a 421? You can have a normal conversation without having to wear headsets.

You also don't have to remove any seats to be comfortable. And you have a potty. And lots of space for luggage.

The Aerostar has its positive attributes (like speed and handling), but given the choice for the mission described in the OP, the 421 is a better alternative.

Alex,

On this we will disagree. The OP has a two hour flight profile normally. I am NOT going to clean out the potty after a two flight. Anyone I fly with better learn how to use the bathroom before we get on the plane for that short of a flight!

When driving with just 2-3 people, a Chevy Suburban is not more comfortable then a BMW M5. Each person only takes up a certain amount of space.

The result, is I would rather have a plane which is more fun for the pilot to fly then carry around unused space and capacity.

Tim

Tim,

What 'fun flying' are you doing in the AS with 2 ppl on board that makes it better than the 421. Are you hand flying? Showing them 60deg turns?

Tim - on the issue of the potty, I agree. I have a policy of shoot first and find out what happened later for the potty on my Citation for flights of any length. I repeatedly insist passengers go to the bathroom before they board. My youngest girl, though, has a problem with this. After fighting with her repeatedly to go to the bathroom, my takeoff call outs when she's onboard are typically "Airspeed alive, 70 knots cross check, V1, rotate, positive rate, gear up" interrupted by I wannaaaa go to the baaaaathroooom.... its good to have it if only for emergencies.

On the other issues we can agree to disagree. A quiet cabin and space to work lends itself to a more productive time spent commuting especially on business trips.

In my case, my employees/associates stay in the back reviewing presentations, discussing last minute items and getting prepared for business meetings. When we land they typically comment the flight was very quick and they are normally fresh and relaxed. The 421 is not a Citation but it is a lot closer than an AEST.

Having a potty ,whether you use it or not, is a HUGE psychological game changer. Passengers will not have anxiety knowing its there in a pinch. My kids and most female passengers use it on our 3+ hour trips. They also don't have to board the plane or travel dehydrated . While the OP only needs 2 hour legs, I still advocate having a potty option.

I own a 601P with the SS700 conversion, and regularly fly a 421C that I manage. Comparing the two airplane are like comparing apples and oranges. Both excel in different areas.

The closest Cessna comparison to the Aerostar should be the 340. Both airplane owners seem to regularly take out the 6th seat to gain room. Both airplanes cost about the same to operate, have their idiosyncrasies, and "design flaws," and hangar size issues. For the same value as my Aerostar, I could have a similarly equipped 340.

While loading is a little different in the Aerostar, I can say that I've yet to put my ass in someones face while trying to fold myself into the left seat. Both airplane have complex fuel system, but once the light comes on and you figure out what the Aerostar fuel is actually doing, you realize that it is a really good design. I can buck a 20-30 knot headwind in the Aerostar, and still have the first number in the ground speed a "2", but the 340 can't. I've yet to see a 340 that I can (safely) stuff full of cargo like I can the Aerostar. Support from Aerostar has been great, as is the two Aerostar forums. Aerostar was brilliant when they provided the "ala cart" upgrades, such as the known ice upgrade. The Cessna, well, your stuck if it didn't come from the factory with FIKI...

The 421C is in a different class. As someone said above, it is a flying Suburban, verses the Aerostar being the Porsche Cayenne. I've comfortably put six adults in the 421, and loaded so much baggage in the nose that it wouldn't fit in the rental car with five adults (four being women that like to shop), and still had enough fuel to legally fly for 2.5 hours. I can take the 421C out of a 3500' runway on an ISA day with six adults, bags for a fishing trip, and 2-3 hours of fuel and still meet the 135 performance requirements (even though we're 91), but I wouldn't try with the Aerostar.

Jason

I do hand fly a lot; I like it. I sold the A* a couple of years ago.
As for 60deg turns. I do that all the time. 180 in pattern is very common for me; yes, yes I know we should extend base a bit and make it two 90 degree turns...
All kidding aside, no I do not do 60 degree banking turns with passengers.
If you have to ask why I would choose to take a BMW M5 to drive to the grocery store over the minivan every time; then you will not understand why I would choose the Aerostar over a 421.

Tim