This guy got a positive rate of climb, sucked the gear up, and flew this baby all the way to DC. ALL ON ONE ENGINE! At gross weight. The Navajo's performance is slightly better than the Aero Commander's.

If you lose an engine at 25' (just after rotation) and 90+kts, what would you do?

This guy got a positive rate of climb, sucked the gear up, and flew this baby all the way to DC. ALL ON ONE ENGINE! At gross weight. The Navajo's performance is slightly better than the Aero Commander's.

At 25 feet I am already well past my decision. I continue flying.

No windmilling prop. As soon as I feather mine, and that takes just few seconds, there won't be any windmilling props either.

Will you be going to Simcom for your Navajo initial?

K,

You spent some time on your analysis.

It deserves a response.

Executive Summery:
You are wrong, and if you attempt to do what you describe in any kind of Navajo at Max TO weight, you, and whoever is on the plane with you, will most likely die.

Comparing aircraft based on their listed S/E rate of climb is a poor way to compare expected performance for YOUR mission.
Keep in mind, at the SAME weight a Chieftain (PA31-350) is going to out-perform a 310 Navajo, and a T-1040 is going to out perform a Chieftain.

There is a chart in every POH that describes S/E climb performance at different weights, temperatures, and pressure altitudes, ALL at Vxse, gear up, flaps up, prop feathered.

The performance you will get with the gear down, or with the gear in transition is going to be less. (Not to mention - before the propeller is feathered )

Here's a way to get some idea how much worse:

With both motors running, set power for 89KTs (obviously don't do this close to the ground, at reduced power Vmc isn't going to be a big deal, but Vs will be), after everything is stable, lower the gear, maintain your airspeed and power, note that you are now descending at 200-400'/min. You can play with the cowl flaps as well. Try the same exercise at Vyse.
You can assume your actual S/E performance will be reduced by an equivalent amount.

One more exercise you can do:

Add power to maintain altitude and airspeed (@89KTs), after everything is stable, retract the gear, and time how long it takes for the aircraft to accelerate to blue line.


Bottom line:

A Navajo isn't an Airbus, it doesn't have a stick to finesse.

Treat it like a 121 aircraft and it will bite.

In a light twin, the gear handle is the key, gear down, and you are landing straight ahead, gear up and you are going flying (at least for a while), as for climbing to clear obstacles, you should plan on doing that before the engine quits.

Nice commander summary. Are they still dangerous?

Kw,

I just want to ask one favor. If you buy a Navajo and plan on demonstrating a single engine takeoff, PLEASE let me know.

I want to watch.

I've never seen a really bad airplane crash before.

Jgreen

Only when the wings come off.

Oh, I am funny , really I am.

Jgreen

Hi Ryan,

Even with the reinforcing spar cap straps installed at the factory, they still cracked, albeit at a slower rate. I don't know much about them though.
I think Adam S Frisch and few other guys here on BT are into Aero Commanders. Poke them a bit. They ought to know.
In fact he has a pretty active thread right here on the first page, called "Turbine step up?". Check it out, some good reading.

KW

I will look into Simcom to see what sort of Navajo sim they have. Is it a realistic Navajo sim or a generic piston twin sim, pretending to be a Navajo. Also, the quality of instructors, and recommendations will determine if I do my initial with them.
At the beginning of my flying career, for two and a half years, I taught as a CFIIME and Ground Instructor. Enjoyed it a lot. I specialized in training military pilots to civilian Multi Engine ATP standard, ME instructors, ME ratings, and ME re- current training. I flew a Seminole, an Aztec, and have some time in a Chieftain. I also was involved in a training de- partment of a foreign regional airline, where I worked on an Operations Manual, and was nominated a type rating examiner. So eventually, I probably will write my own training syllabus, and do in-house training.

KW

I will look into Simcom to see what sort of Navajo sim they have. Is it a realistic Navajo sim or a generic piston twin sim, pretending to be a Navajo. Also, the quality of instructors, and recommendations will determine if I do my initial with them.
At the beginning of my flying career, for two and a half years, I taught as a CFIIME and Ground Instructor. Enjoyed it a lot. I specialized in training military pilots to civilian Multi Engine ATP standard, ME instructors, ME ratings, and ME re- current training. I flew a Seminole, an Aztec, and have some time in a Chieftain. I also was involved in a training de- partment of a foreign regional airline, where I worked on an Operations Manual, and was nominated a type rating examiner. So eventually, I probably will write my own training syllabus, and do in-house training.

KW

Thanks Jesse. I will definitely look into it, and will visit them, as I am in FLA quite often, and it will be a leisurely drive to Orlando.

KW