I think it's a combo of things. First of all, it's expensive as new. $7mil buys you a jet. For the Hampton/Wall St crowd, this is a silly prop clown plane. You haven't arrived until you're in a jet. Perception is everything. It's also too strange for mainstream acceptance. "Looks like it flies backwards", or "is it a flying catfish?" etc. Piaggio probably didn't help in the beginning not offering US quality service. I'm Euro guy and if there's one thing the US does well, it's service. They probably thought they could get away with the usual Euro-aloofness when it came to that. I've heard service has improved considerably since then, but it's hard to shed a reputation.

Anecdote - I remember talking to a real estate developer once who flew a King air 200 or something. He was looking to step up. He was talking jets etc, he wanted faster, but was a little afraid of the jump in cost. "Have you thought about the Avanti?", I asked. He couldn't stop laughing. "Never, ever, over his dead body would he buy one", he said. He was still laughing when he left.

It's just not a plane that most will ever consider. It's too strange. Aviation is conservative. It's like it says in the ad's: Avanti - Fly Different.

Jon we are just jealous because they are doing 100+ faster than us. . Sound is just kero turning into speed...

Yes, but it's less efficient. It burns more fuel per kts of speed than an Avanti. Or put another way, you get more speed out of each gallon of fuel burned in an Avanti than anything else on the jet A market with the exception of the TBM.

Yes, but it's less efficient. It burns more fuel per kts of speed than an Avanti. Or put another way, you get more speed out of each gallon of fuel burned in an Avanti than anything else on the jet A market with the exception of the TBM.

You missed out noise. Who wants to be regarded as pariah? Isn't it tough to fly in Europe. Maybe that's why the majority are based here in the US, but I bet there are hassles in parts of the US? I could see suffering the hassles with an efficient and cheap legacy airplane, such as a Commander or MU2, but not if I had bought new or paid a lot.

I share MP's puzzlement regarding efficiency. At distances up to the Avanti's range, the Pilatus covers the ground for 20% less fuel. In your example trip of 5 000 nm, the elapsed time is a wash. Your statistic of gallons used/ divided by kts is not useful. Unless you like to rush between fuel-stops?

Ashley


I think it's a combo of things. First of all, it's expensive as new. $7mil buys you a jet. For the Hampton/Wall St crowd, this is a silly prop clown plane. You haven't arrived until you're in a jet. Perception is everything. It's also too strange for mainstream acceptance. "Looks like it flies backwards", or "is it a flying catfish?" etc. Piaggio probably didn't help in the beginning not offering US quality service. I'm Euro guy and if there's one thing the US does well, it's service. They probably thought they could get away with the usual Euro-aloofness when it came to that. I've heard service has improved considerably since then, but it's hard to shed a reputation.

Anecdote - I remember talking to a real estate developer once who flew a King air 200 or something. He was looking to step up. He was talking jets etc, he wanted faster, but was a little afraid of the jump in cost. "Have you thought about the Avanti?", I asked. He couldn't stop laughing. "Never, ever, over his dead body would he buy one", he said. He was still laughing when he left.

It's just not a plane that most will ever consider. It's too strange. Aviation is conservative. It's like it says in the ad's: Avanti - Fly Different.

Nowadays..... $7MM may not be too bad. Less than Phenom, CJ4 and PC24.

I'd spend the extra Mil and get the Phenom though.

Adam's an artist, plus he's European (easy now, easy now)



I should most probably search it, but 1 knot = 1 nautical mile...........

Another point is that I put in my real numbers for the cruise speed, not 278. My fuel burn can be a bit lower depending on the altitude/temp.

So far my napkin analysis of all the aforementioned birds still puts the PC12 at the top of the heap.............

Adam's an artist, plus he's European (easy now, easy now)



I should most probably search it, but 1 knot = 1 nautical mile...........

Another point is that I put in my real numbers for the cruise speed, not 278. My fuel burn can be a bit lower depending on the altitude/temp.

So far my napkin analysis of all the aforementioned birds still puts the PC12 at the top of the heap.............

My math is most probably off again here but 270knts = 270 nautical miles

So it takes 53.02 gallons to go 270 nm. To go 364 nm it would take 71.4 gallons of JetA.........meaning that over the same 364 nautical mile distance a PC12 puts another 14 gallons of JetA in the bank..............with potentially less maintenance because of the single engine.......

The Avanti gets over the weather.............and has a very nice cabin...........

Frisch ain't got me convinced yet.

Of course! Would love to do 400 kts.

But you should live in an area where the airport is not under constant attack from noise NIMBYs...

Err, uhm, not quite sure that your math is perfect either .........

not that I'm counting or anything!

The other perceived black mark on the Piaggio is the Anantair debacle.

I don't think I would want one of those beat to %#$@, parts swapped P180's.

Thomas, tell us how you really feel

Since we're comparing "costs".... what cost do you place on the deprecation of an old P180 and how much you're going to have to discount it to get it out of your life one day? Nothing costs more than depreciation.

$200K a year in depreciation divided by 200 hours flown a year is $1000 an hour.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love the Avanti. I am just not convinced they are much less expensive to operate than a jet and good dispatch reliability. My limited info comes from talking to a service center.