110 KIAS puts you way on the back side of the power curve! The book recommends 120 KIAS. I usually climb at 140 KIAS and see 700-800 FPM up to at least FL210, MGTOW (7500#), at ISA +15, Cruise Climb power settings.. We just added the wheel covers and see about 100-200 FPM better on the one flight I had up high to test them.

Jason

I started the climb at 130 and had to increase pitch to hold 800 FPM. I was using the top of the green + 2 IN and top of green for RPM.

We operate five 421Cs and have a fair amount of time in Dukes. There are a couple of points that have been missed. The 421C is a lot less expensive to operate than a Duke. Start with the engines. Duke engines have a 1400 hour TBO and cost $65,000 each to overhaul. We routinely get the 421C engines overhauled for $42-45,000 each with a 1600 hour TBO. Annual inspections on Dukes cost about $5,000 more than a 421C. Starters and Alternators on Dukes are more expensive than on 421Cs. There are failure modes of the electrical system in Dukes where failure of certain electrical components takes out other components. 421C system problems are rare. Some Duke operators report only getting 50 landings out of a set of brakes.

A 421C requires half the runway of a Duke. The yaw dampers of Dukes fail regularly and the airplane is almost impossible to make comfortable to fly without an operating yaw damper.

Duke annual training usually must be provided by a simulator training company and carries a high price. 421C training can be provided by a large number of local training entities at a much lower price.

It is interesting to note that a Duke can be purchased for about half the price of a 421C. Could that be because most people are aware of these issues and no one wants them?

421C's should climb at 135 to 140KTS IAS. 421C has 5.0 press and the Duke has 4.6. Both are good planes. 2 to 4 people and long runways,either plane is OK. More than 4 people, long legs and short runways the 421C has a lot more comfort and a quiet cabin. The 421C controls are a little heavier than a Duke but still very easy to handle and fun to fly. It's wonderful we still have choices to make in which planes we can fly.

I agree and disagree. I put a starter on my Duke for $400 brand new and it took 10 minutes as it sits right in front. Try that on the Continental. My Duke had alternators instead of generators and are not expensive. My Duke engines were 1700 hour TBO and the former owner ran the previous 6 engines to 2100+ hours. You will likely put cylinders on the 421 before TBO. The yaw damper is a problem on the Duke and is not fun to fly without it working. The Duke does not require 2x the runway. I could take off easily from 3500 ft at gross which means the 421 can do 1750? A Duke in the same condition as a 421C is 1/3 the cost or less.

Your right...........

Both Cessna and Beechcraft targeted different markets. Beech went after the wealthy owner pilot and Cessna chose corporations and passengers. Cessna found a larger market and sold twice as many 421's than Beech sold Dukes.
If you want sports car handling, a boost to your ego and good looks buy a Duke. If you want practical transportation your passengers will love and be able to walk in the back, use the restroom without one of your passengers giving up their seat so you can "X" in it, buy a 421C. This is like the Chicken and the egg argument so just buy what you want and can afford.

I just want to say I loved my Duke. It was a great airplane.

I operated it the way folks recommend, it was very stable as an IFR platform.

When I bought it I did so with the expectation that it wouldn't be cheap but none of these piston twins are.

It never let me down and yes....it needed the yaw damp. 421C's are wonderful aircraft. I have about 75 hours in one, and I owned a 340. I like the Lycomings better...the 421 is definitely quiter. Training was a wash using Hoffman aviation. Duke Flyers is a great organization. I feel the Beech is engineered better. There was more room in the nose of the Duke than one would think. Nothing compared to the 421C though.

The tip for me between the two was concern over the SID becoming mandatory here in the US. Other than that, they are both wonderful aircraft. It's all in what you want.

IMO, the most fair comparison is: pick a cabin load and a distance, add that cabin load, required fuel and reserves, and go fly.

That penalizes airplanes with high empty weight or high fuel burn appropriately. Most of us think, "I need to fly my family to grandma's", not "I need to go fly a 6600# airplane today."

Dukes are dead-sexy on the ramp; 421 cabin is very comfortable and amazingly quiet in cruise. Take the average family, fly them in both airplanes, and I don't think anyone who sits in the back will pick the Duke as the winner.

In addition, the whole tail section of the Duke is Magnesium which makes the elevator corrosion issues on Bonanzas and Barons seem minor!

Jim,

Have you flown a Duke or rode in the back? With the props at 2400 it is nearly as quiet as the 421 and the seats are super comfortable for 5 people total. The 421 wins with more than 5 for sure.

The 421 is a great plane, my point was that it does not perform any better for the same amount of fuel other than the takeoff roll.

I'm a die hard beech lover but...

I think the 421 is a beautiful airplane. Not that the Duke isn't also, I think its beautiful also.

But if I was going to be burning 40gph in cruise I would much rather have the option to seat 8 people and a semi private potty would be sweet!

I love the Duke, but the C-400s have the best cockpit in GA... Period... Comfortable, Quiet (especially the -421) leg room, great visibility, the trim wheel is perfectly placed for manual operation, or monitoring it by leaning your leg against it, your hands fall on the throttles, the autopilot panel is accessable without reaching. The labels on the C/Bs and switches are well lit can be read at night with bifocals, and THERE ARE NO SWITCHES or GAUGES ON THE OVERHEAD!!!

They have a much more ergonomic cockpit than ANY Beech product.....

I agree - the cabin is far superior, but for 4-5 people the Duke is 1/3 the cost and outperforms it in everything except takeoff roll. If you ned the big cabin go with the 421, but you are not filling the cabin and going any further than the Duke. For 500 NM or less the 421 will haul more people and bags. After 500 NM you need the fuel and will max out before adding more than a total of 6 people in the plane

Most GA flights are 500 NM or less. The Duke is cheaper to buy but the operating expense is the same for both planes. With the 421C the pilot has more payload and range options. Doug is right the 421C cockpit is a great place to be for long trips. I also like the placement of the controls, trim and switches.