25 minutes is a long time

And so many on BT claim the Cirrus is easy to easy and you need a Bo to be a real pilot. Which one is easier to make a good landing in?

Tim

And so many on BT claim the Cirrus is easy to easy and you need a Bo to be a real pilot. Which one is easier to make a good landing in?

Tim

John,

I agree with you.

I've flown quite a few different types of hi-perf singles. It took a couple extra hours in the SR22 before I got that more comfortable feeling, i.e., got rid of that nagging feeling like I might crash on my next landing.

BUT, once you get it, you get it. Then it's no more difficult than a Bonanza.

We were at 5,000 feet

I am currently a 270ish hr pilot who is completing my Instrument Rating training. While my skills have increased substantially as a result of my IR training, yesterday was the first time I flew a Cirrus. After necessary ground school by my CFII, I found take offs AND landings to be incredibly easy. Ok, we only had two t/o and landings. The three areas I had to get used to:

1. Taxiing using brake/rudder differential
2. Side stick flying
3. Preparation for ballooning when flaps are deployed

These were explained to me and the landings were some if the best I ever had. I don't need to prove my manliness. All I want is a fast, reliable, stable, fun and easy to fly aircraft. If it's easy to fly, it's good enough for me.

and ?

Well, as a guy who owned a Cheetah (75 Traveler, actually, but basically the same plane), I can answer that. I could actually afford to purchase and fly the Traveler, whereas the Tiger would have broken the bank at the time. In the Traveler, I flight planned for 125-128 KTAS on 7.5 GPH, and usually burned less fuel than planned. It was a great plane, and I loved flying it. The Tiger would have been 5-10 knots faster, at the expense of an additional $12-$20 per hour, and a savings of maybe 15 minutes per flight. All that for about $20K additional up-front cost? No thanks.

From the standpoint of a PC12 driver, I would imagine that ANY of the airplanes you read about are 'slow' airplanes... But Champ or Citation, they are all airplanes, and any of them can bite you if you are careless. And ALL of them are someone's dream airplane...

My current plane is a great example... The Commander looks great, has a huge cabin with doors on both sides, runs great LOP, and is incredibly stable without being "ponderous"... Most on this forum think of it as "too slow", but I'd rather spend 6 hours in the Commander than 3 in a smaller, less comfortable cockpit. And after all, I fly for fun. The same trip in a Champ would yield more flight time (=more fun), but would impose other limitations.

Different strokes for different folks. That's what makes for variety, and variety is the spice of life.

I have 1,200 hours in BO's 33's and 36's, 1,000 hours in 58's and 600 hours in an SR-22 turbo I've been flying for the last three years. I am now debating an upgrade between an SR-22T G-5 or a Piper Mirage. ALL of these are wonderful planes each with its own quirk and flying characteristic. Any average pilot pilot can, within a reasonable amount of time learn to land and fly any of these, albeit, the twin does present potentially more challenging situations and therefore more recurrent training.

In the end, it's your mission profile and your wallet that determines your choice, not ease of landing any more than color schemes. sometimes, your wife has an opinion (mine likes the chute and I can't say that I blame her). And be the way, you strap any of those on and take it up, it means you're a pilot.

Ill never understand this viewpoint towards the Cirrus line. I have about 500 in bonanzas and about 650 in the cirrus. I fly the cirrus about 200 hr yr and 100hr yr in the bonanza line. They don't make you do anything, you make yourself lazy. It does on the other hand make you ask the question, "My car has this why the hell can't my airplane" A LOT LESS. They stopped the status quo aircraft manufacturing mentality. They constantly innovate. It's got its set of flaws like every airplane, but nothing crazy. They bash the parachute but own things like fire extinguishers, cars with air bags, insurance policies, home security systems, and concealed carry permits, all things you don't want to have to use but sure are glad they are there if you do. So if you can understand why there are so many cirrus accidents, can you explain the reason behind other manufacturers aircraft, cause the cirrus isn't doing any worse then any other design, numbers don't lie. For people who say, "it's got a parachute so it should have a lot less fatal accidents," are there fewer fires cause you have a fire extinguisher? You still need to know how to use the equipment...

And? I'm transitioning to the Cirrus. Love the plane.

An SR22 is a lot more than 5 knots faster than an SR20.

Flew 1.5 hours in a SR22 yesterday. I like it. It responds well to flying it "by the numbers." Once you get the numbers down everything falls into place. Not unlike other airplanes. With a bonanza you can fly an approach faster because you have several ways to increase drag and they all are effective.

Wow.... So many accidents? Don't let facts get in your way - like 1.07 fatalities per 100,000 hours, instead of the 2.38 for personal and business flying in GA. No confirmed fatalities this year. 6 pulls - all walked away.

I don't find it a different feel, other than extremely comfortable for real travel. In the pattern, it's great. I love hand flying it - very intuitive, responsive, and easy to do. As easy to land as my Bonanza? No way - I don't think anything is. But not difficult. The fat prop on the turbo slows you down pretty quick when you need it. But nothing compares to the Bo gear and flap combination.

Comparisons are great. But spouting stuff like "I can understand why there are so many accidents..." because your buddy's friend at the hangar down the row said it, is not.

If you want to know their safety, it's here: https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/safet ... rates.aspx

Never thought I'd love a plane as much as my Bo, but albeit early in, I do the SR22TN. Just for different reasons.

Fly what you want, and even argue your reasons. Just stick to talking about what you actually know.

I posted the following in 2007 in the Flight Aware discussion forums.

Allen
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Got to fly the Cirrus 22 beast Friday night.

Cirrus had reps at KMBO offering demo flights. I had taken up a person in my plane and met my wife back at the airport. As we were walking through their exhibit trailer, letting the sales rep know we were there "dreaming", another rep came up and asked if we had an hours worth of time, we could take a demo flight from KMBO to KMLU. Turning that option down was not an option

Saddled up in the left seat, the rep gave me a quick overview of the MFD and PFD. Strap in like a fighter pilot with a four point shoulder harness..

Plane also had two Garmin 430's for the radio stack. Rep did all the startup procedures to expidite the time, and after doing all he did via the checklist, he turned the controls over to me. Since I have a 430 in my Sundowner, using the radios was old hat.

Taxing was a little squirrely for me, as it took more braking action to turn rather then plain ole rudder due to the castering nosewheel. Thing turns on a 1/2 dime when needing to do a 360.

After trundling down the taxiway, turn on 35 at KMBO, right arm on the console armrest, push the throttle forward and off the runway lickety split with three people in the plane. EVERYTHING is at fingertip reach / control.

Stayed below KJAN airpspace and once we cleared it, climbed to 2500. At 70 percent power, maintained 185 knots indicated after trimming the plane. 18 gph rate per glass cockpit display.

Trim on the yoke is extremely sensitive. Having the yoke in the left hand was no different then a standard yoke. Flying a plane is flying a plane, you still pull the stick back with the left hand on take off, so other then location, was nothing to adjust to. Took me a whole 3 or 4 minutes to adjust.

EVERYTHING on this plane was ergonomically designed.

Trim on the other hand, was a huge adjustment. You have to "flick" the trim "joystick" as holding it just doesn't cut it. VERY, VERY sensitive.

Also the trim adjust ailerons, so it takes tons of practice to get the feel for not inadvertantly trimming the ailerons vs the elevator.

Once I got a feel for the trim, I held altitude within 20 feet and heading within 2 degrees. Air was pristine which always helps.

Glass cockpit, had every bells and whistle. Planes with Mode C in a 11 mile radius of me showed up nicely in the display.

IFR approaches become as simple as keep the plane on the line, as we did a DME arc into KMLU. Rep wanted to know if I wanted to put autopilot on and play with the MFD, which I declined. I can do that on the computer, I just wanted to hand fly the plane.

Landing in KMLU was ugly, but manageable. Giving me the "benefit of the doubt" it was a night landing on a 150 foot wide runway. I am used to 75 foot runway..

Plane on landing handles like my Sundowner, you have to fly it to the ground and hold your final approach speed to get a good landing. 80 knot final was no big deal. Only two flap settings, which was on the right side, at fingertip control.

Wings have deicing stuff for the "emergency" not certified for ice, but has 3 1/2 gallons to spew over the leading edges and also will deice the windshield.

Music piped in via XM radio, no different then a car. My wife in the back seat, loved the comfort, getting in and out, was very, very easy for the back passenger, in fact easier then for the front row seats.

Picked up the Cirrus service Rep in MLU. Take off was effortless with four passengers, and I maintained 1000 fpm climb effortlessly.

With a quartering tailwind and running 90 percent, we made it back to KMBO in 22 short minutes at a ground speed of 235 knots. Prepping for the approach and landing, since I fly by "time" rather then distance", I.E five minutes prior to arrival, I start briefing my landing and three minutes prior to arrival, start configuring the plane for landing, it was no big deal.

The amazing thing to me was that since I was covering about 4 miles per minute ground speed, I was 12 miles out. Anybody that flys by distance will be behind this airplane big time.

Landing in KMBO was as good as it gets having experienced MLU. Again, just carrying a touch of power on touch down will grease the landing. Rollout, since flaps were down, was squirrely, but more operator (me) getting used to it, then plane I'd suspect, though wasn't sure if flaps were retracted immediately after touchdown or not. My sundowner, first thing after wheels down is to retract flaps to get weight on the wheels BEFORE braking.

Great flying machine. At 1/2 million dollars for the machine I flew, would I buy one? Nope, can't afford it.

If someone gave me the keys to one, would I take it, nope can't afford it. Insurance for me with 700 hours and IA rated would be 5K a year. Didn't even talk about maintenance cost. Average fuel burn is about 18 gph at 75 percent.

Now, if somebody had money to burn and would give me one and I had the money to maintain it, absolutely would take it in a heart beat!

Soooo, the bottom line after what I experienced on Friday, is that it's not a crappy plane.

It is NOT for inexperience pilots,
It is NOT for student pilots,
It is for pilots who are ahead of their airplane.

I can see why getting behind this plane will put you in a boatload of trouble, but flying it, FOR ME, was no different then my Sundowner.

This was my first time in a glass cockpit airplane and to be honest, much easier to fly then I ever expected, as scanning isn't as critical. EVERYTHING is in eye sight, HSI, speed, everything.

A large training curve would be in order to navigate the menus and such, but the Cirrus rep said that could be done in one day. He said its a much larger training curve for the Garmin 430's then the MFD and PFD displayes.

Bottom line.....

I had to do the same steps to fly this beast, as I do my Sundowner
I had to do the same steps to land this beast as I do my Sundowner.

If you fly the plane from the moment you turn the master on to the time you flip the master off, theh Cirrus 22 is just as safe as any other proven hardware in my HUMBLE OPINION.

Great experience for me in my short time in aviation.

Allen