I have built over 10 experimental airplanes and have 4 at this time.
I would never have another certified airplane if an experimental would fit my desired flight profile.
I can put an autopilot, GPS, SV, moving maps and engine monitor that will perform as good or better than any airliner for 10 percent of the cost.
For simple, inexpensive and fast operations it's hard to beat an RV.
They are as fast as most Bonanzas and cost much less to purchase and operate.
I like my Baron, but I love my experimentals.
I am an A&P so I can sign off annuals on any of my experimentals and I have Repairmans Certs for some of them.
Life is good, but for it to be great you have to "experiment".

Matt,

No, you only get the kit. If you want a *NEW* angle valve Lycoming 540 you are looking at $80k. Prop is another $10k. Nice avionics around $27k. Interior $4k, Paint, $10k, etc.

There are fairly new unbuilt kits out there for $35k, but even at that price I would buy one done. You are looking at 2k hours of labor if you are good at building. $150k buys you a darn nice finished plane with modern avionics. What I liked about the one I purchased was the stage of completion it was in. I was 75% built by the owner who is an engineer. Performance One Aviation finished it and did their extra mods such as tail strakes and extended rudder. The plane has all the bugs worked out at 350 hours and still in in primer, so I can choose the paint. The avionics were installed by JA, so I know the wiring is good. I can now retro the displays and autopilot with the G3X Touch pretty easily.

The value is in letting someone else build it and then buy it for 1/2 $ and get the labor free as well.

Question about experimentals... do kit manufacturers have to undergo some sort of FAA evaluation or certification before they are allowed to sell the kit?

Nope. Caveat emptor.

You can bolt a prop to a go cart with plywood wings and sell it if you want.

That's not the whole story. There is some sort of evaluation to verify that a kit falls under the 51% Rule.

Actually, the kit manufacturers do have to have some oversight, but most of it is to ensure that the kit meets the 51% rule for building. However, like all good businesses that grow without government interference, the buyer selects the kit that shows quality and value for the $. The market picks the winners and the system regulates itself. The RV is a prime example of a quality kit with a caring manufacturer. If the government had been involved the RV would have never happened. I would take a new RV-6A or RV-8 for less than $100k over any 4-place certified airplane if I only needed 2 seats and no de-ice. An RV-10 with a IO-540 is an incredible airplane as well. I would really like to see the experimentals incorporate some type of reliable de-ice. IMO, this is the only item that keeps them being superior in every facet when compared to standard cat airplanes.

I thought there was some sort of final inspection by an examiner too.

I love experimental and all the freedoms therein. I will own one someday, in some form whether it be the epic or a cub.

I'm also hopeful for PNC

Each individual airplane gets signed off, but the question had to do with the kits as sold.

A few random thoughts..

A nice Bo can be had for 75k... equivalent capability is probably an RV 10 at twice that much.

Experimentals crash 5x more often than certificated planes.

Owner assist annual could lower your annual and the right shop choice could make the condition inspection / annual choice a wash.

May be only a matter of time before we can install experimental avionics in many cases http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and- ... l-into-law

RV's are really fun planes

No, but if you buy a kit which has not been evaluated by the FAA you run the risk of the FAA denying you the airworthy certificate. They will at the point of completion, run through the task list and look at your build logs to verify that you actually completed everything you listed....

The FAA has a list of tasks and the kit is evaluated by a national team/organization (I always forget the details of how this works) and they basically count how many tasks completed by the builder and how many by the kit company. It needs to be more then 51% of the tasks completed by the builder. Very important thing to note, tasks completed does not involve prep time. For example one of the tasks is attaching ribs to the spar. The line up, drilling and prep may take 20 hours, the actual attachment takes 5 minutes. The FAA only cares about the five minutes. So smart fast build options do the 20 hours of prep for the builder. This is how the Glassair two weeks to taxi program works.

Tim

Adam,

...just a clarification: you are correct that the overall accident rate is higher in Experimentals compared to Certifieds. However, the vast majority of those accidents are, as one would predict, loss of control and engine failure accidents, and many occur in the first few hours of a plane's life, often in the first flight. After a plane (and the pilot) makes it through that critical time, and as time goes on, the accident rate comes back toward the rest of the GA fleet's rate.

10% of first flights result in accidents, and 9% of first flights by a (purchaser) second owner lead to an accident.

Overall, the fatal accident rate in E-AB planes per 100K hours is 3.5 times higher than in certified planes.

Here's all the poop: http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2012/SS1201.pdf

Although my RV-7 build is still in MANY MANY individual pieces in my garage at least I have almost finished the empennage. I realistically am 3+ years from completion but it hasn't stopped my from day dreaming over some panel, interior and paint options. Building the thing is really half the fun
Here are a few images:

A nice modern Bo cannot be bought for $75k. You are looking at $100-$200k for an IO-550 V35 with glass avionics and still will have a 30-50 year old airframe with parts that cost 10-50x more than they should. You can buy a nice RV-10 with a 1200+ lb useful, no CG problems, 260 HP engine that gives the same performance as a 300 Bo, better avionics than a G1000, fixed gear for simplicity, 900NM range with reserves and a 1-5 year old airframe. You will spend $150k to $200k for this plane and will spend about $200-$1000 per year in maintenance (high end is if you need tires.)

As for experimentals crashing - yes they do more often. Unfortunately, people spend 10 years building and fly very little. They end up with a hot airplane and no skill. Also, many people opt to install automotive engines and make other mods that are not the best choice. Well built experimentals with qualified pilots (think Stan M) do just fine. Their are many Glasair planes with 2000+ hrs on the with no problems. There are many RV planes with 4000+ hours on them.

Time will tell. One thing is for sure - the experimentals are getting attention. There are quite a few $1.3M Lancair Evolutions flying and being purchased.

In peddlers talk right now there are plenty of nice Bonanza's with asking prices well under 90k. I bought my Citabria for 10k under asking and the guy threw in a 3k prop and a 1k tug, so some of these will go for 75 surely. My certified Citabria offers more value than a Kitfox or a Rans in my opinion... dirt cheap and certified. In many cases there is just no reason to go experimental. For a 4 seat single I don't see experimental being better value than certified, even considering condition inspections and experimental avionics. It's a buyers market you can still get a nice certificated Bo for well under anything of remotely the same capability in the experimental world. In two seaters the equation changes quite a bit since equivalent certified two seaters just don't exist... there is no certified equivalent of an RV8 for example.

Isn't it great that we have the options? I have less than 75K in my Husky, and it's got a full IFR panel, and is a blast to fly. I was looking for a Rans, but couldn't find one I liked any cheaper than the Husky.


My SX is a blast to fly. Very useful, great fun, and has a full glass experimental only panel. There was nothing even close to it's capability in the same price range in the certified market.


Lots of times its just what you happen to find...and I'm glad to be able to play in both the experimental and certified world.