BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 11:20

Username Protected wrote:

-- I use the following components to calculate DOC. Fuel, Oil, MX and engine/prop reserve. What number would you use for each bucket on the Eclipse?
-- What number would you use for the annual budget? (Yes I know hangars vary, but pick a number)
-- What number would you want for the emergency reserve?
-- Is there a resource which can break down the major model / upgrades changes and roughly what is the market price?

I might be dumb enough to actually look closely at the Eclipse and start searching for a partner.

I figure $400 per hour for fuel, but as you know this can vary quite a bit. If you do a 1 hour flight and land at a big airport, it will cost you more than $400 for that hour. If you do a 3 hour flight and fill up with cheap fuel, it can be as cheap as $325 per hour. Oil is nothing, maybe I put in a $20 quart (half for each engine) every 25 hours. With the engine program or just figuring in a reserve fund, 150 hours per year, all scheduled maintenance will be ~$300 per hour. Tires, brakes, and other unscheduled items are not included in that. Brakes are expensive.

If you want $2m liability and $1.1m hull, with zero prior turbine time, your insurance will be $15k for a year. Not cheap, but not crazy considering that is almost what I paid for the first year with my 414 with $1m liability and a $150k hull. Hangar in Houston is $300 per month. $3000 in San Diego.

Stay away from the 1.0 and 1.3. 1.5, 1.7, and iFMS are all great. The 1.5 and 1.7 are exactly the same planes. The 1.7 was a $20k upgrade on top of the 1.5 and all it did was give you charts on the MFD. The subscription is ridiculously expensive, so few people use it anyway. 1.5 and 1.7 have all the bells and whistles, with dual garmin 400s. The iFMS does away with the Garmins. I am not convinced this is a superior configuration and I do not believe it at all to be worth the extra $. I think the 1.5/1.7 is the best value. They have all the upgrades you would want. (FIKI, WX radar, traffic, moving map, FD, coupled autopilot, roll steering, etc.)

If you do a flight in one, you will probably end up buying.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 11:24

Username Protected wrote:

If you do a flight in one, you will probably end up buying.

THAT is why I avoid demo flights!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 11:58

Username Protected wrote:

If you do a flight in one, you will probably end up buying.

THAT is why I avoid demo flights!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 12:21

Controller is to aircraft owners what crack is to crack heads. On it every day. I run traps on fltplan.com in this bird or that bird. But at the end of the day it is hard to beat the efficiency of a B55.

an Eclipse at 600K though is a lot of bird for the money with an excellent fuel flow.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 12:54

Theo,

Nice PIREP. Do you have any pictures of the plane loaded with four people and bags? Is there enough room somewhere in the plane for golf clubs? Awesome plane.

Jimmy Elza

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 13:14

Username Protected wrote:

Theo,

Nice PIREP. Do you have any pictures of the plane loaded with four people and bags? Is there enough room somewhere in the plane for golf clubs? Awesome plane.

Jimmy Elza

I removed the 5th seat (never had a 6th). It is probably the most comfortable 4-plane. You can actually lay the 2 rear seats back all the way if you want. 4 adults, bags, ski gear, my 178s fit no problem. In this configuration, 4 golf bags would fit nicely.

In this pic, the girls are both 5'11 and as you can see they are quite comfortable. There is a LOT of luggage in this pic, but with the 5th seat out there is just a ton of room for it.

Attachment:

IMG_4195.jpg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 14:05

Username Protected wrote:

Theo,

Nice PIREP. Do you have any pictures of the plane loaded with four people and bags? Is there enough room somewhere in the plane for golf clubs? Awesome plane.

Jimmy Elza

I removed the 5th seat (never had a 6th). It is probably the most comfortable 4-plane. You can actually lay the 2 rear seats back all the way if you want. 4 adults, bags, ski gear, my 178s fit no problem. In this configuration, 4 golf bags would fit nicely.

In this pic, the girls are both 5'11 and as you can see they are quite comfortable. There is a LOT of luggage in this pic, but with the 5th seat out there is just a ton of room for it.

Attachment:

IMG_4195.jpg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 17:24

Username Protected wrote:

I'm pretty sure I flew Tim's plane about a year and a half ago. He had it with another group that was trying to manage it. I didn't like the third party management deal. It certainly wouldn't fit my family trips, but I still make several trips a year by myself or with one or two other folks. Yea, the cost is kind of crazy for me. Of course, I only have one plane now and we all know it takes two to three to meet all mission requirements (g).
I may call Tim again sometime.

Thanks Tony and those pointing out why it won't work (g). Was getting the shakes last night and need a support group on occasion!

Best,

Dave

I'm just really, really happy it's based there and not here!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 17:27

Username Protected wrote:

Theo,

Glad it is working for you. I am flying between 150-200 hours a year now at half the speed.

When I see $850 I think it is too rich for my blood. But I am spending ~$450 an hour for direct operating costs going ~220 KTAS block to block. So I probably have a higher cost per mile.

This is all based on flying ~150 hours a year. (I found I just go farther now than I did in my Cirrus; so total hours barely dropped) So with that stated, here are some very bad question for me.

-- I use the following components to calculate DOC. Fuel, Oil, MX and engine/prop reserve. What number would you use for each bucket on the Eclipse?
-- What number would you use for the annual budget? (Yes I know hangars vary, but pick a number)
-- What number would you want for the emergency reserve?
-- Is there a resource which can break down the major model / upgrades changes and roughly what is the market price?

I might be dumb enough to actually look closely at the Eclipse and start searching for a partner.

Tim

Tim,

Please please don't consider moving any further west...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 18:15

Username Protected wrote:

Here are the issues I have about the Eclipse:
-- Repair headaches. You have to get almost everything direct from the company and there is a hefty markup. Currently I think that markup is being used to subsidize restarting production. This will inflate my repair costs; probably above what I can comfortably budget.
-- The initial cost. I would want one which has all the upgrades. I cannot afford it.
-- I eventually want to spend a lot of time traveling internationally. By making me get the parts from Eclipse when traveling, if I am AOG this will add a lot of time and expense.
-- UL to low. I want more fuel and range.

Tim

You sound like you need a Merlin III....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 18:22

Username Protected wrote:

Was Jason in the lav when this was taken?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 19:31

Username Protected wrote:

Tim,

Please please don't consider moving any further west...

Actually considering it.

So why should I not move further west? hehe

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 19:33

Username Protected wrote:

You sound like you need a Merlin III....

There was one which came up on BT a few months ago. If I knew about them when I was doing my upgrade to the Aerostar it could have been a contender. At least on paper. Never been in one so :shrug:

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Oct 2013, 23:11

What concerned me about the Eclipse was the structural life limit in Chapter 4 of the Eclipse maintenance manual....

10,000 hour or 10 years, whichever occurs first with a note that it was anticipated to be extended to 20 years.

20 years is a long time but can come quick. Does anyone know if this has been revised?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Oct 2013, 03:02

Username Protected wrote:

What concerned me about the Eclipse was the structural life limit in Chapter 4 of the Eclipse maintenance manual....

10,000 hour or 10 years, whichever occurs first with a note that it was anticipated to be extended to 20 years.

20 years is a long time but can come quick. Does anyone know if this has been revised?

Old news. Fatigue testing has been completed. The only limits are now: 20,000 hours or 20,000 cycles.

Eclipse partnerships in Dallas (Addison)