BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 18:00

I remember hearing about $400K in damages to this plane. I think it happened at Byron or Lodi, CA because the pilot supposedly ran a jump school and those were the ones my friend who originally showed me this frequented.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 18:34

Username Protected wrote:

That guy must break a lot of expensive things for her to be so dismissive about it.

"That Bob. Remember when he drove the Ferrari into a ditch? What a card."

Oh, that's probably just the pills talking.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 19:16

i guess if you're filthy rich it's no big deal, like she said.
gary

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 19:28

That looks like Lodi, CA airport. That runway is narrow and short to be landing a mustang. There is an all black mustang based there.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 19:56

Username Protected wrote:

No, he wouldn't have had to firewall it, just add a little touch of power and keep the stick back until things settle down a little. Letting the pressure off the elevator after a bad bounce just lets the nose fall and this is what you end up with.

That is not a go around. I agree a little power to help with that first bounce would have helped.

After watching the video a few times I don't think he actually bounced it on landing. If you watch he pitches up after the mains touch. I bet he was trying to 3 point it. When the mains touched he tried to pin the tail which is correct technique. The problem is that he was a bit fast and the tail was still a few feet from the ground. When he tried to pin the tail he popped the plane back off the ground. He didn't realize the tail was still off the ground. JMO

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 20:14

Username Protected wrote:

No, he wouldn't have had to firewall it, just add a little touch of power and keep the stick back until things settle down a little. Letting the pressure off the elevator after a bad bounce just lets the nose fall and this is what you end up with.

That is not a go around. I agree a little power to help with that first bounce would have helped.

After watching the video a few times I don't think he actually bounced it on landing. If you watch he pitches up after the mains touch. I bet he was trying to 3 point it. When the mains touched he tried to pin the tail which is correct technique. The problem is that he was a bit fast and the tail was still a few feet from the ground. When he tried to pin the tail he popped the plane back off the ground. He didn't realize the tail was still off the ground. JMO

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 20:16

Username Protected wrote:

My guess would be double that figure.

I seem to remember hearing 250k for a refreshening of an engine, but I'm not sure. That was a couple years ago.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 20:50

Username Protected wrote:

I can't decide whether I want to slap the pilot, or the wife, more.

http://vimeo.com/57146636

I agree with Chuck! And I'd bet that the damage is far more than a just few hundred K. That tail wheel comes down with such tremendous force that I guarantee you'll see structural damage to everything from back of the canopy to the tail. I'm surprised it didn't break in two. And the side loads on that gear.....can't believe it didn't collapse.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 21:19

Username Protected wrote:

It still would have not been a big deal to add a little power, to prevent settling, then add more and more as airspeed allows the plane to handle more and more torque.

What you say is correct technique (trying to pin the tail down by hauling back on the stick) is actually horrible technique. If you have any excess speed at all, you are either back in the air, or you are making enough lift to cause the mains to be very light on the ground which can lead to skidding or sideslipping. Don't haul back on the stick unless the tailwheel is already on the ground and shows signs of staying there. The only technique that is worse is when people attempt to glue the mains to the runway by jamming the stick full forward as soon as the mains touch.

If you ever bounce, do not push the stick forward in an effort to return to the ground. Just hold back and either accept the decent rate that will develop, or add a little power to reduce the rate of decent.

Funny.

I have 2000+ hours of tailwheel time from DC-3s to the J-3. Yes of course you only pin the tail when the tailwheel is on the ground (which is most definitely correct technique). My point was that this guy probably thought his tail was on the ground and tried to pin it.

Yes a little power would have been appropriate to recover from that first 'bounce'. However from what it sounds like the runway is pretty short and that would have extended the rollout and possible overran the end of the runway. Who knows.. :shrug:

As far as a go around, in my opinion it was not an option after the bounce. It looks like it stalled after the bounce (left wing dropped). Adding enough power for a go around at that point would have been a bad deal IMO.

After all the bouncing and such he looked like he had it but then for some reason departed the side of the runway. Maybe a blow tire?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 21:38

Username Protected wrote:

When the mains touched he tried to pin the tail which is correct technique.

That is what I was referring to. You don't "pin" the tail when the mains touch. I am sure you didn't really mean that since you have 2000 hours and everything, but people read this stuff and the takeaway for them is that depending on which expert you listened to, you either fully push the stick forward or pull it all the way back as soon as the mains touch.

I'm the first to admit that I'm not an instructor, but I've seen plenty of folks that think there is a magic bullet approach to landing an airplane, and that if they only put a certain control input in at the exact right time, then they too will be a great pilot. Some yank back the yoke when they think it's time to flare, some jam the stick forward when they want to pin it on the runway, and some haul the stick back when they want to pin it on the runway.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jan 2013, 21:57

Username Protected wrote:

When the mains touched he tried to pin the tail which is correct technique.

That is what I was referring to. You don't "pin" the tail when the mains touch. I am sure you didn't really mean that since you have 2000 hours and everything, but people read this stuff and the takeaway for them is that depending on which expert you listened to, you either fully push the stick forward or pull it all the way back as soon as the mains touch.

I'm the first to admit that I'm not an instructor, but I've seen plenty of folks that think there is a magic bullet approach to landing an airplane, and that if they only put a certain control input in at the exact right time, then they too will be a great pilot. Some yank back the yoke when they think it's time to flare, some jam the stick forward when they want to pin it on the runway, and some haul the stick back when they want to pin it on the runway.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Jan 2013, 11:57

Our own Larry Matlock (BT guy) is at that field. With the constant parachutists, ultralights and final over the wires, it can be a circus.

Here, you want to have a nice adult beverage waiting for you after each flight.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Jan 2013, 18:21

It's still flying, under new ownership

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p5 ... -73079.php

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Jan 2013, 21:43

If I had to guess, my $$ would be on that it was a solo self checkout and probably had little if any time in a T-6 and none the unlucky mustang. You can go around after a bounce it power is applied at a moderate rate up to about 40"mp.. The mustang will go around just fine from a fairly slow speed with full flaps and gear down and 40". Having a real checkout, priceless!

Nathan "Dirt" Davis
KOKK

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Jan 2013, 09:21

Well I would guess (not quite old enough to know for sure) that back in 1944, this was just another day in flight training for the 50 hr Kids transitioning to the P51 but giggling "No big deal" after that landing today isn't the first thing that comes to mind for me! :bugeye:

How NOT to land a P51