Most will have the -60s

That's impressive, and I suspect you're spreading the fixed costs over a large number of hours?

Ashley

That's impressive, and I suspect you're spreading the fixed costs over a large number of hours?

Ashley

We have 2 coming off lease this year. High time birds, but may be cheap.

Were used by commercial operators. Probably the lowest price you will see on TBM 700's.

Just an FYI.

Thanks for the extra information Stetson. Do you mind me asking for more? I can find out how much hangaring, insurance, etc will cost. I imagine it those costs will be different from your companies, and I don't have to pay myself anything. What I can only guess at is maintenance of the airplane and avionics. Is that easily broken out? Would you mind sharing it?
No worries if it's difficult or awkward.

Ashley

Ashley,

I have those numbers at my office, I'll post them tomorrow when I get in.

This is a great thread... and the TBMs are great airplanes. They would be on my short list if I ever wanted to move up to a turbine. So having professed my respect, please forgive me for throwing logic into a thread of unabashed airplane lust...

I was reading the new Flying magazine with the TBM 850 on it. Seems a wonderful airplane, and I'd sure love to fly nearly twice as fast as my Bo. Then I ran some numbers...

I could fly from Nashville to either New York or Florida about 1 hour faster than I can in my Bonanza. That's the kind of trip I probably make half a dozen times a year for various reasons.

For those gained 6 hours I would pay at least 4 times my all-in costs on the Bonanza, added acquisition cost of about 2.8M, and I would have to spend a week (read: time and money) getting recurrent training at SimCom to keep my insurance carrier from kicking me to the curb. Net all that together and I get *less* time and *less* money from my trade.

So I guess I'll keep this here awesome airplane I have now, despite an insatiable lust for a cruise speed that starts with a 3.

For the typical owner/pilot, with a little wiggle room on scheduling and doing personal flying, there is no rational way to justify the extra expense of turbine(s)...now if you happen to have the $$$$ to burn or can work out a way to piggyback a little personal flight time onto an airplane that also earns its keep, then more power to ya...

hey I think I read that on CessnaTalk from a 182RG owner regarding his lust for an A36

it's an excellent point though. if you get one of these for a personal ride, you've got to have seriously deep pockets. But hey, there are guys out there with Gulfstreams and use em just like your Bo - all depends on if you got the dough and how you care to spend it.

You're right. But my Bonanza is not justfiable - either in time or money. I knew that when I bought it. It saves me more time than my Maule and I'm using it for longer journeys, but I've spent more time training, and I have to leave lots of wriggle room for flights into Idaho's mounatins. The MAule was irrational expenditure before the Bonanza, and the Tiger before that. Well, maybe the Tiger wasn't irrational; it was bought using good logic and false assumptions.

I'm lusting after carrying more having taking four people and some gear into the Sierra mountains. We offloaded some gear to a car.

Still, Jeff C makes a strong point. Do I really want to spend that time and money to accommodate others? It would be easier and might be cheaper to charter a Pilatus for those times. But I'd never do that!

Ashley

You definitely have to pay attention when starting the 850 on quick turns. You can exceed the temp limits very quickly. It seems to stay hotter and not cool down as fast when you motor the engine before introducing fuel than similar turbines. I see PC12s and KAs do quick turns all the time and they never have the extended start process that I have to go through. On hot and high DA days, I will sometimes have to motor the engine for 30 sec. to bring temps down to the low 200s, shut down, wait 60 sec. for starter cool off, then do a normal start introducing fuel when the ITT is at 140-150. Kind of a pain with pax in the back and it's getting hot in the cabin. If your battery is questionable, then you better have a GPU or an hour to kill because you'll over temp for sure.

I have to disagree when folks say turbines are easier to operate than pistons at least when it comes to the 850. You have to constantly be on your toes with the 850, especially when you are out of the 700 mode (governed) and in the 850 mode (non-governed). The ITT, torque, and Ng can change very quickly in certain flight parameters.

The 850 sits tail heavy when its empty. It doesn't take a whole lot of baggage and pax to move the CG aft of the limits. The fuel burn does very little to change the CG as it usually pretty close to the actual CG. I carry about 90 lbs. of ballast in the nose baggage to keep the CG within limits. But even then I can't put four 200 lb. passengers plus baggage in the back. I have to do 1 aft, 2 middle, and 1 in front with me.

I shudder to think what 'relatively low' means in turbine-land .

I understand that you may not want to plaster your numbers all over the interwebs, but I would appreciate if you sent me a pm with your hourly direct operating cost. There seems to be a big 'fun with numbers' game going on whenever turboprop cost are being discussed, nothing beats real-world numbers in that regard.

I have seen those side-by-side comparisons on the TBM vs the PC12 and the KA90 with the -35 engines and for some reason the PC12 required considerably more on the overhaul reserve than either the TBM or one of the KA engines. I understand that it puts out a lot more power than the flat-rated TBM engine, are you aware of anything else that may play into this ?[/quote]

The 850's -66 is close $300K for overhaul, which equates to a $100/hr engine reserve.

Thanks very much for the full reply. Odd that magazines never discuss details like that. I guess it would pay to take a course in an airplane BEFORE purchase if anyone were serious.

Ashley

Here's a comparison I've done when calculating on whether a TBM or similar really makes sense.

Let's say you live on the east coast and you want a second home out west (1500 nm) in say N.M. or Ariz. You want to split your time between both locations evenly, so you you plan on 1-2 round trips per year. You're bringing pets, they don't travel well, so a piston is out of the question for those long legs. You're going to fly the region recreationally while you are at either location.

You can buy and operate 2 brand spankin' new G36s, keep one here and keep one there, and charter the round trips....for almost half the cost of buying and operating a TBM 850.

We've been blown into a new world of economics, and you have to look at all the angles.