Hey Spike

That is exactly what I'm getting at. Just don't have any reference as to what a 'fair market value' might be for one of these with the associated history. IMO, $100,000 for a full quarter share might be a decent deal, worth thinking about anyway. As that price rises the luster fades rapidly and its just a vehicle for the current owner to lay off some of the action to a couple of saps.

Good point Jason.

I too would be curious as to how close it came to the published performance #'s...

370kts max cruise
48-51 fuel flow
41,000 ft ceiling
etc...?

I'm not buying those numbers. Besides, how long does it take that thing to get to 41K? Will they ever give you 41K?

I couldn't even think about buying into an Eclipse until I took it to 41K and verified for myself. I'd have to take it on a good cross country and see what kind of situation ATC put me. How long will they keep you at lower altitudes before being allowed to climb? How much does that affect my range.

A quick jaunt to 10K' wouldn't cut it.

Jason makes a good point here. You would really need to see how it worked in practice. In busy airspace they will certainly keep you down to allow fast jets (that is, all jets minus straight winged citations and such) to climb out over you.

Also, remember that with this kind of airplane you throw away the ace-in-the sleeve maneuver of VFR at 17.5. If you get jerked around by ATC in a turboprop you have this at your disposal (sure you'll burn more, but you can still do it and airplane/pilot are happy and the fuel penalty is acceptable....not so in a jet).

Is it an "airplane salesman" thing to take people up and do turns and slow flight and other maneuvers?? I never understood the practice or doing this to sell an airplane. I don't want to do slow flight and turns and stuff. I want to fly the airplane fast and far and see what it can can do.

I went up with the TBM salesman and he's like "ok, let's drop the gear and do so some slow flight". I'm like "F that, let's red line it and dump the clutch". Know what I mean?

Is the Eclipse currently RSVM capable? If not is that part of the expected upgrade package?

Sound like fun to me, but my money would go into a turbine Duke, similar performance #s at non RSVM altitudes. Proven airframe and good support with the Duke.

Rick

Don: The $100,000 is just an earnest money deposit. Once he has two owners committed (earnest money up) he'll bring the plane to Eclipse for all the upgrades. The new partners are showing they are there and the balance is due once the plane is upgraded or is returned.

I didn't want to get into all the numbers as this is a private transaction and these are good, well-intended folks. No matter how I look at Eclipse today, it's about 2,200,000 to get into one that has all the certs and upgrades. One can purchase an early serial number cheap and put a LOT OF MONEY IN, or purchase a Total Eclipse jet and wind up having about the same amount in them. Eclipse is now trying to upgrade the old Day Jet fleet and to get existing planes re-done or out of the way so they can start production again. They are talking about this being $2,500,000 for a new production plane but haven't so stated yet.

Jason: I just enjoyed the ride and got a feel for the plane. The track I was on was to purchase some block time to get into all the issues later that I would want to fully understand: fuel flow and speed just being two. I thought I could have limited financial risk while really getting to know the plane and owners. Since that doesn't seem to be in the offering, I've told them it doesn't work for me. I'd want a couple trips in the plane and would be willing to pay for them. Just wouldn't make this kind of commitment without understanding a WHOLE lot more. Still, a fun ride. I do know a couple folks that are flying them and may check to see what they think about performance.

I was cautious when Eclipse was making some bold promises they didn't live up to. No sense in jumping into known problems now! As an existing owner, I understand working through things. In my business I don't pay retail for something with known problems one must solve. I pay wholesale and get some benefit.

In addition to the price being a bit strong, they want to manage the plane and charge fees for so doing. So, I'm pretty well on a different track. Partnership documents need some work and I'm just not sure I want to be a one quarter owner of anything. I'm too hands on.

Best,

Dave

10-4 Good buddy!

Awesome!

It will happen in a "slow jet". I flew a performance limited jet (MU-300) in my corp. days. If you're coming out of a busy metro area and can't keep up with the "normal" jets, you will get turned off course & held down quite a bit. We had a FL410 certified airplane (saw that exactly once in 500hrs), and we were always getting held down at FL280/290 because we we getting run over by the M.78+ airplanes....(we were .68-.72). As far as climbs.....the bigger/faster a/c will be climbing at anywhere from 270 to 300+KIAS above 10K.......climbing at 160-180KIAS on a SID in a busy area isn't going to get you any favors from ATC.

If you keep it to out of the way airports, it'd probably do OK.....at least fuel/range-wise.

At 2.5m I dont see eclipse taking many sales away from Cessna.

My brother has a Eclipse and loves it. He's had all the upgrades done. Coupled GPS etc. I'm no authority, but it's a great plane to fly.

I sorta like it but....

When you take in all the factors....parts avail, service, resale, utility, durability, small organization, over $2 mil price tag, off brand avionics, little bit toyish ramp appeal, non-corporate seating arrangement, you kinda go Hmmm.

When you're spending serious money, it might make the list....just not the top of the list. It takes top of list to make the sale. Coming in at choice #3 or #4 won't cut it.