My stance is Bury your head and pass the buck kills people. This is a dangerous game.

I am just trying to verify and break the chain of events if needed. If it turns out the structure is fine and there is some type of real info to show that well then it's better documented and somebody else won't have to question it.

The structure does not care if it is legal or not. Only what loads it can support.

Even if I was not signing it off I think the owner (Student) has a right to know. He can make the decision what to do after that.

“ give the owner your best advice and move on “

Is there an echo in here?..

And Charlie, I'm completely with you in shaking your head over condition inspections. Don't feel bad about walking, he can easily find someone with an A&P who will sign it off for a couple hundred $$.

I have a hangar neighbor who bought an already-built lancair retract and doesn't seem to know a heck of a lot about mechanical things. I never see him tinkering with it and he has no tools in his hangar. He got someone to come over and do his condition inspection and it took them less than 3 hours. We can't do the annual on my no-electric aeronca champ that fast.

No reply from Rans. Tried calling a few times but no answer. Left a message.

Searching online I found this press release.

RANS has also announced an increase in the gross weight of its aircraft to 1320 pounds (600 kg), the limit of the Sport Plane category. The increase applies to the following models: S-6ES, S-6ELS, S-6S, S-6LS Coyote II equipped with the Sport wing, and S-7 (1999 and up) and all S-7S and S-7LS aircraft.

For more information, visit http://www.rans.com.

Sadly this airplane does not have the later Sport wing. The Sport wing has complete full aluminum stamped ribs with the fabric riveted on. The ribs with rivets restrain the top fabric and tie the front and rear spars together.

The wing this airplane has is the original standard ES wing which has ultralight style bent aluminum batten tubes slid into fabric pockets. They do not attach to the spars only sit in the fabric pockets. In flight the lower batten "Ribs" bend inside out to a different airfoil shape in flight when loaded. There is nothing connecting the top of the wing to the bottom. I have no idea what the top surface is doing in flight loaded to 1320.

Later Standard ES wings appear to have the rib top tube and bottom tied together with aluminum plates and a riveted leading edge skin but the wings installed do not have any of those.

If I am looking at this correctly the airplane has been operating 310 lbs or 30% over gross.

Searching the Rans Clan forums archives I found this.

#3
06-15-2011, 06:59 AM
Rans Gross Weight increase

Eddie G. from Rans responded to an e-mail I sent and says it only applies to the models listed that have the newer sport wing.

Eddie G I believe is the current president of RANS.

Below are three pages from the various S6 build manuals Rans has online. You can see there are huge differences between the standard wing this airplane has and the later Sport wing.

Guess I was wrong. I can't believe this structure works for that weight compared to something like a J-3, Vagabond or Champ. VNE is 120 mph. Same as a J-3 or Vagabond. No static ports.

From Michele at Rans.

This is Randy's response: Even the early models of the S6 are capable to go to 1320 gross, provided they are not the lighter version of the fuselage cage. That version was strictly sold to the UK and very few were made, less than 100. The proper procedure when increasing the gross weight is to load the plane to desired gross and fly it to determine all the V speeds. The VNE is already very conservative, which allows such margins for weight increases.


Michele “Shelly” Schlitter


Question I sent first.
Morning Michele. Sorry to push this issue but I really think what Randy told the owner is incorrect. Could you show this to him or someone working in engineering.

Below are photos of the inside of the wings on this airplane. It is the Standard wing S-6ES Kit Serial number 04041568 The Builder set the gross weight at 1320 lbs back in 2005 when the airplane was completed.
The current owner who just bought the airplane has been operating at this weight as a student pilot with instructor.

After your email I still did not think this is correct. Searching online I could only find a press release and mention in 2011 where the 1320 gross weight applied to the SPORT wing only which has full ribs and leading edge skin with other changes.

Searching the Rans Clan forums archives I found this short note.
#3
06-15-2011, 06:59 AM
Rans Gross Weight increase

Eddie G. from Rans responded to an e-mail I sent and says it only applies to the models listed that have the newer sport wing.

I also found this press release from 2011

RANS has also announced an increase in the gross weight of its aircraft to 1320 pounds (600 kg), the limit of the Sport Plane category. The increase applies to the following models: S-6ES, S-6ELS, S-6S, S-6LS Coyote II equipped with the Sport wing, and S-7 (1999 and up) and all S-7S and S-7LS aircraft.

For more information, visit http://www.rans.com.

But I could not find any other information on the Rans website. I believe this airframe has been operating 310 lbs (30%) over gross weight possibly.

Thanks for any info again sorry to push but I believe this is a critical safety item we need to find out for sure. The owner is a student pilot and not the builder so he did not set the gross weight originally.

Charlie