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02 May 2025, 17:09 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 19:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
Pressures are 160 and 30 If that’s useful information, I had them a little higher on the low side and some old guy told me to takeoff a little pressure . Any ideas?


What are the cabin and outside temps? Your high side does not seem high enough, appears to be low on refrigerant


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 20:12 
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I stand corrected. My guy just said it was 45/190. It’s an R12 system if that makes a difference


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 20:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
Pressures are 160 and 30 If that’s useful information, I had them a little higher on the low side and some old guy told me to takeoff a little pressure . Any ideas?


Superheat is overlooked while focusing on pressures alone. You are looking for the delta between the hot pipe and the cold pipes at the evaporator and at the condenser. A competent ac guy can use these temperatures along with the pressures to determine if the system is serviced correctly.

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Last edited on 19 Jun 2024, 22:02, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 20:53 
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Location: South Jersey KVAY
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Username Protected wrote:
So I'm an AC contractor by trade... you say you have great pressures. What are they?
Cold refrigerant line leaving the expansion valve but then not cold when out of the evaporator IS NOT a sign of a dirty evap coil. You would have the opposite affect. If the evap is dirty and air can't move across it (no load on coil) the refrigerant will not pick up any heat and evaporate in the evaporator coil. The suction line leaving the evap coil going back to the compressor would be ice cold and most likely the evap would start to frost and freeze up.

The problem your having is usually a result of low refrigerant charge or some sort of restriction in the system. Either a bad expansion valve or a clogged filter drier. What is happening is your not flooding the evaporator with refrigerant and the refrigerant that is going into the evap from the expansion valve is evaporating before it probably makes it even a quarter of the way through the coil.

What are your pressures? It would also be helpful to measure the temperature of the liquid line (line leaving the condenser coil) with a temperature clamp type thermometer. This reading combined with the high side pressure in the system while that temperature reading is taken will allow us to calculate the subcooling value of the refrigerant in the high side of the system and be much easier to troubleshoot if your low on charge or restricted.


Is a internally Clogged evaporator, symptomatically different than One that is externally, covered in dust?


No. If air cant pass over the coil wheather it's internally packed or has a mat of lynt or dirt over it the symptom is going to be the same. Low airflow out of supply vents, low suction pressure (low side) and a suction line and evaporator that will start to freeze up.

45/190 doesn't seem that far off. In the commercial refrigeration world 190 would actually be pretty high and indicative of the condenser coil not doing a great job of exchanging heat. The first thing you should do is assure that the condenser coil is CLEAN and the condenser fan motor is running at 100% and able to pull air through the coil. Just because you can shine a flashlight through the condenser coil doesn't mean that it's clean. A small layer of dirt throughout the coil will greatly reduce its ability to exchange heat. In the commercial HVAC world we clean coils w/ a cleaner such as nu Brite or tri power HD using a coil cleaning gun. Let the cleaner soak on the coil for about 5 minutes then blast out with the garden hose. If it comes out brown or black the coil was dirty. Should eventually come clean. Once we know we have a clean coil check pressures again. If there us no change start adding some refrigerant to the system. If the high side starts spiking to crazy high levels and tripping on the high pressure switch you have a restriction. Get the suction pressure up to around 50/55 and see if the suction line leaving the evaporator starts to come back cold. If your in an even midly humid climate you should start to see the suction line sweat in areas that aren't covered in insulation. After you get the coil clean I would try to add whatever 50% of thr charge is and see if that fixes it. If not your more than likely have a restriction in the filter drier or expansion valve. These parts cant be cleaned. They need to be replaced. An expansion valve that is faulty will close down internally creating a restriction. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 20:59 
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This is my OCD obsession right now. I’m going to figure this out. Appreciate everyone’s help. I’m going to stop screwing around with this thing piecemeal and attack it as a system and just rip it all apart it’s gonna be terrible but worth it in the end


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 21:27 
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I'm watching this thread closely. Thanks for all that have contributed!


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 21:38 
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I am not real familiar with the Keith system, but the older R12 system had a hot gas by-pass valve controlled by a temp switch on the forward evaporator inlet line to keep the evaporator from freezing up. Just one more thing to look at ( if you have it ).

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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 22:20 
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Location: South Jersey KVAY
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Username Protected wrote:
This is my OCD obsession right now. I’m going to figure this out. Appreciate everyone’s help. I’m going to stop screwing around with this thing piecemeal and attack it as a system and just rip it all apart it’s gonna be terrible but worth it in the end


Probably for the best. If your going to turn it into a project, open it up, replace the drier and expansion valve with new, get the evap and condenser coil cleaned, pull a good vacuum on the system, preferably below 500 microns and recharge. If there is no weigh in data charge, charge it to 45-50 suction and you should be good. If at those pressure the suction line still won't get cool then add a little more. Then again if you start to see the suction line get cold at even 40psi suction then I would stop there, check the temp of the air coming out of the supply vents and see if it's good and not add anymore charge.

While there are some standards, depending on the design and engineering of the system the suction pressures on a good unit can be + or - 6 psi.

Also certain things can artificially raise or lower system pressures such as dirty evap or condenser coils and mild restrictions. That's why before really doing any troubleshooting you need to verify clean coils and good airflow over both coils.

The pressures your mechanic gave are really not that far off. But if your condenser coil is packed those pressure are going to be artificially raised to what you would think are good pressures but your actually low on charge and the pressures are just high because the condenser coil is restricted and raising the pressures in the system.

It's also possible there is a restriction and the pressures would then be lowered and some other mechanic kept cramming refrigerant into the system to get the pressures to where he though was acceptable but in reality the system is just over charged with a restriction.

These systems are pretty simple but there is a science to it. The pressures give good hints but being able to take temp readings of the suction and liquid line while in operation will give superheat and subcooling values of the refrigerant. This adds a whole other element to the troubleshooting process to make it much easier for the technician to understand what the refrigerant is doing in the system.


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2024, 22:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am not real familiar with the Keith system, but the older R12 system had a hot gas by-pass valve controlled by a temp switch on the forward evaporator inlet line to keep the evaporator from freezing up. Just one more thing to look at ( if you have it ).


It would be very helpful to know if you have one of these installed in your system. It would be plumbed with a tee fitting somewhere downwind of the compressor (discharge line very hot) before it hits the condenser coil. If you have one installed that could change things.


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 Post subject: Re: Airplane Air Conditioners Suck!
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2024, 09:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is my OCD obsession right now. I’m going to figure this out. Appreciate everyone’s help. I’m going to stop screwing around with this thing piecemeal and attack it as a system and just rip it all apart it’s gonna be terrible but worth it in the end


Post some pictures of the process if you get the time please


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