Where is this?

Could I get some of this training? Provide particulars.

Mike C.

If that's so, any chance I can buy one of those extended warranties?

If that's so, any chance I can buy one of those extended warranties?

That's super cool! I just got my A&P Certificate last week.

That was presumptuous.

I have an A&P I'd like to train up on JT15D hot section work. Where can I find a school that would teach that specifically.

Mike C.

FlightSafety does PWC JT15D training

How much of a JT15D hot section can an A&P do?

And how much has to be sent off to a JT15D shop?

Just curious what my options will be when my time comes in 2 to 3 years. I had always imagined I had to fly the plane to the shop, but if I can deliver the parts and leave the plane at home base, that's a potentially intriguing idea.

Mike C.

Theoretically, you could do the entire inspection yourself as an A&P. There are some specialized tools (not impossible to rent or borrow). Obviously, there's some judgement and experience involved too.

So, the next step after my picture of everything laid out on the floor:

1) Inspect the blades for length, nicks and sulfidation. Hopefully they pass.
2) Remove the small exit duct from the HT stator and inspect for non-legal cracks. You also remove the Segments (those are the spacers at the periphery that make the seal with the HT blades). Usually some reconditioning of the small exit duct is required
3) Inspect the large exit duct and combustion liner, usually some inexpensive reconditioning is required
4) Flow test the fuel nozzles
5) Replace the gaskets in the #4 bearing housing
6) Check the T6 probes
7) I never see issues with the low turbines.

Reverse the process.

But, absolutely, you could leave your plane in your hangar. Mail everything to the shop, and then have 1 professional guy come up to put it all back in. I'll help you coordinate all this for free if want my help.

That's super cool! I just got my A&P Certificate last week.

I know you mentioned studying when I was at your place. Congrats Mike, that's awesome.

I could be wrong, but I don't think an A&P is a requirement to get a repair station license or certified repair station to repair anything, including engine overhauls.

You are right, but a repair station is a lot harder to get than an A&P or even IA

You could hire monkeys to do repair station work, so long as you can train them for specific tasks and document it properly.

People think repair stations are the epitome of high quality aviation work, when in fact, the concept exists so shops can hire non-A&P workers, to do specific, but limited, tasks.

The worst work I've encountered over three decades has come from repair stations. In one example, a shop was overhauling Citation nose gear actuators. One of our part 135 Citations failed the scheduled end play check, so we ordered an exchange actuator to save downtime. We installed it, and it failed the maximum play check right out of the box. Which means it might not lock properly, and the nose gear could collapse. I contacted the vendor, and they said there was no requirement for them to check this play. During our conversations, the shop tested and discovered that the ten actuators on the vendor's shelf all failed the end play check. It is only checked at one of the Phase inspections in the airplane, not even during initial installation. I discovered it because it clunked when we did the gear swing, so I checked the end play. And it was worse than the old unit it replaced. Swapping it out again is a giant PITA in a Citation. After conferring with my local FSDO PMI, and theirs, both PMI's made the vendor add this check to their procedures in their component overhaul manual.

This is what happens when you have too many individuals with limited training. You can have a 50 employee repair station, and not one A&P. None of them know enough about aircraft as a whole, so they have no idea that the end play would matter. They don't know how hydraulic systems work, how airplanes are flown, or the landing conditions that could precipitate a nose gear failure, etc. A&P's learn at least a little bit about everything.

The next year, I received an overhauled alternator for a time-change requirement. From a well-known FAA Certificated Repair Station. We installed it, and during run-up, it didn't work at all. The system was working fine previously. We double checked our work, tested the regulator and wiring to see if we goofed up anything. I found that the plastic pin, that holds the brushes in the holder for initial assembly, was still in the holder. Meaning that this alternator had never been run-in and tested per the overhaul manual. Yet it came with a test certificate attesting to the amp output throughout the RPM range. And three different QC stamps, and an 8130 form.

I can pull up examples of dozens of different failures of repair station components due to these factors. Add in the fact that the person doing the work is generally not responsible for the outcome. He's not signing off anything with an A&P certificate on the line. Only the Chief Inspector is on the hook. You can bet that risking a hard-earned A&P certificate ensures a higher standard of work. It's one of the causes of mid-course attrition at A&P schools, when students learn they will be held personally responsible for their work, even when employed by a large company. From two decades of association with one of the oldest A&P schools, I know they continue to lose students part way through the courses due to this. Some of those students get picked up by repair stations to work in the component shops.

Getting a repair station is not difficult, it's more of a test of your will power to deal with FAA paperwork. Endless manual submittals and revisions can consume a year. And will continue to consume time, every year at audit time. I've set up three different repair stations, consulted and assisted on two more, and will never do another one.

But let's dig a little deeper here. You know when you send your alternator to the mom and pop shop, your ancient Britton autopilot or your old King radio to get it repaired - I doubt any of those are A&P's. Nor are they repair stations or otherwise certified in any way - they're just overhaul shops. It comes back airworthy and repaired with an invoice and we put it in, right?

So, I'm asking - what real authority do we need to put a repaired part in other than the A&P's that does your annual/phase? What I'm trying to say is, you could have Joe Schmoe, who just happens to be a self taught genius at overhauling JT15D's, and as long as he provides a work order, an invoice, then that's all you need, right?

None of your examples are legal for a certified aircraft. If an uncertified shop does work on a certified product, someone needs to inspect that part for airworthiness. So that would be an A&P or a CRS.

Yes, there are lots of people that get parts worked on by uncertified sources and just reinstall them. They are under the radar but not legal.