Also all the 12s Ive ever seen are going to have great avionics and be able to shoot a LPV ILS etc all the same, they all have good auto pilots

Real world going from proline to king EFISs to Garmin to Honeywell, for anyone who has business flying a PC12 it should no factor after a quick familiarization, it’s all the same data just sometimes in a different place

The single pilot thing is not based on science and history

If for whatever reason you are not able to safely pilot 8 people you shouldn’t pilot 1 pax, heck you probably should just be a pax

The amount of crashes that were a result of a pilot sudden death are crazy low, I have also seen pilot talk about all this and the let their wife, who can’t even back the minivan up without hitting something, load a ton of kids in the van, talk hands free as she blasts off down the freeway


In many ways flying a single pilot plane two crew can be less safe as single crew especially factoring who you’re going to get to play SIC in a single pilot 91 plane

As someone with a ton of experience single pilot flying the line, I worked at places that had a SIC development programs, it 100% made the operation LESS safe, having a low time CPL in my right seat often would not reduce my workload, but increase it, I’m now wearing my captain hat and my CFI hat at the same time, just single pilot right seater demographics

The only time a second pilot makes sense in something like a PC12 is if it’s a high time pro pilot on the right seat mentoring a lower time owner in the left, even then the flight would be smoother, safer and faster if the owner sat in the back, nothing wrong with this arrangement, I’ve done it before and enjoyed it as I like teaching, but it is what it is

The systems you mention in the Cessna version of the PC12 don’t really help single pilot, some of those systems were installed on the NGX and are more of a annoyance for a seasoned pilot
Take the feature where it will roll the plane back if it hits about 60 degrees of bank, for Dr Jo Bob III it might seem great, he knows he’s had some issues of getting disoriented looking at his iPad and back up if his AP failed on this cirrus, great! Well the higher time pro pilot doesn’t really have that issue of knowing which way is up anymore and if they command a 60 degree or more bank it’s for something major (bird, plane, etc) and they need that turn NOW

One MAJOR lack I saw on the Cessna at OSK was it didn’t appear to have AoAs and the landing lights were lacking, general build quality and exposed flap tracks and all just made it feel cheap, but it’s a American/Mexican/Chinese made plane compared to a Swiss built plane to be fair

Just doesn’t support the data. The number of dead single pilots pro or none is unacceptably high. You don’t have to be incapacitated to take a perfectly good plane to a hole in the ground. How many days at a time do we have to go back to find a fatal single pilot op with a perfectly good plane. Pro or other. Don’t have to go back too far.

Huh?

You’re not one of those “one death is too many” unrealistic camp are you?


The amount of planes that crash due to pilot health is crazy low

Two pilots vs one is no different than the single engine vs dual argument. Nobody will win either as there are just too many variables.

For only 150hrs a year I would recommend a plane you can dry lease. PC-12 is pretty easy to dry lease but I think CJ2-3 is even easier. At least in my market. The CJ2 and 3’s on dry lease are crazy busy here.

I bet you can buy a CJ3 and dry lease it 150 hours a year and have it cost the same or less as owning a newer TBM on your own.

150 hours just isn’t much to justify having a new plane sit. You will have to pay programs for that anyway.

For sure things can happen fast in a jet. But you have the choice to slow down. If I have a busy departure I can pull back power and climb at 2000fpm. But it’s really nice to be able to climb at 4000fpm when you need it. Jets can fly as safe as you want them to. SETP you are limited in your options.

Mike

Two pilots in a single pilot plane is like tossing a engine core in the backseats of your single engine Beechcraft and thinking it makes you more safe

In your position I would at least get a ride in an Avanti.

One of the private owners sold his Honda jet and bought an Avanti 1. Loves his Avanti.

My 2007 should have cost 5 mil 3 years ago. Only reason it did not was Piaggio in bankruptcy.
Guess what? They have not gone out of business and shut down in the last 3 years and very unlikely to be shutting down. Too much work for Italian government.
I was concerned about operating cost and concerned about being left without parts.
I did wait about six weeks on a door cable that broke. Small ice chest under door worked while I waited.
Plenty of used parts available as well as places and people who know how to work on them.
Over 400 hours for me and zero AOG.

6 people in Avanti with stand up LAV and 5’10” ceiling is hard to beat
Phenom 300 (smaller cabin) may be better for 8 people if cost not a big deal.

For the seventh or eight person- I would rather ride sideways on bench seat in Avanti than first class commercial any day.

Proline: I am a bit slow in all things computer. Proline was a hurdle for me but well worth it and a small hurdle vs. how wonderful this airplane is.

Would I like to go 70 knots faster and fly at FL450?…sure. Out of my league and needs.

385 knots at FL320 or 360 knots at FL390 does not suck.

Wife and daughter used to ride horses. All show horses have show names and also barn names.

Queen of Sheba is well loved

We affectionately normally call her Chum Bucket

Turbo Commander 1000 Jetprop is an option. 300kts, FL350 RSVM, good cabin alt and will fit 8 people and more or less full fuel and go 2000nm. When you factor in that you'd have to stop once in any jet on a longer trip, the TC will get you there in same time.

Two pilots in a single pilot plane is like tossing a engine core in the backseats of your single engine Beechcraft and thinking it makes you more safe

Thank you for all the responses. You all bring up very (mostly?) good points.

Now for the rest of the story...My dad is also a pilot, and we share time in the TBM. Between the two of us, the plane sees 250-300 hrs a year. We each have a little over 1000hrs. Also a fair bit of of the time we fly together, for business or family trips, so both of us would be up front when the plane is loaded with the rest of the family. Right now my wife and I have 2 kids, but want to add to that number or have room for friends in the future, etc. We take risk management very seriously, including training. We did a week of initial training in aircraft and also do 3day annual recurrent in the aircraft and/or sim time. In any case, I think it will be a few more years before more seats are "required" but want to start considering options in any case.

As several of you point out, the PC-12 is probably the most logical step up. I'm not excited about having to learn the Honeywell avionics, however. We also really love the speed of the TBM. I have never flown in a PC-12, so maybe that would be a good place to start.

I really would love an Avanti because it checks all the right boxes as an airplane. I just am not sure about buying something with a ton of hours. There are 3 US based aircraft on Controller right now but one has 6000+ hrs and the other is 8000. Also I feel like it would take a long time to transition from single/G1000 to multi/PL21. Do all the Proline21 have Synthetic vision? Or are there Garmin conversions flying?

Comparing the PC 12 to the TBM is like comparing a station wagon to a corvette. Owned the TBM, flew the PC12. The only thing the PC 12 does better is short/rough field. Outside of that it flies like 1 ton truck, rides like one too. Build quality, please the TBM outclasses the porklatus by country miles. Then there is the 2 + million dollar premium for what? to go slower? Don't think so. Every time we got into the the red piggy the owner kept saying he should have bought the TBM when i showed him the difference in time and cost for the trip.

Keep the TBM until it does not fit anymore, by then the market will change and there might be some other options. Looking early will just confirm you are already in the right airplane.

Wiki page for general background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti

Avanti I (up to late 2005) can be converted to Garmin GTN750Xi+ G600Txi system. I have an Avanti I and it is fully Garminized.

Avanti II (late 2005 and on) are PL21 and cannot.

That's a huge disadvantage.

Is the impediment a lack of an autopilot STC?

That is what currently stops Citation Bravo, Ultra, Encore upgrades.

Mike C.

That's a huge disadvantage.

Is the impediment a lack of an autopilot STC?

Without considering the cost factor, Phenom 300 EV or CJ3+ would be my choice.
You won't look back!