01 Jun 2025, 00:48 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy  Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 11:52 |
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Username Protected wrote: Compromises, sure, but Not denying anything you've pointed out- you're getting into the debate about the technical merits and their relative value, which is fine (and it matters a lot, don't get me wrong). I was only summarizing the technical issues. I've been retired for two years and most of my focus was on training the meat servos whose job it will be to wiggle the sticks in all these different flying machines. 
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:00 |
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Username Protected wrote: Always wanted to know how an Osprey will fair in a single engine mode...
Might get very interesting depending in which mode they are in. The engines are interconnected.
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:01 |
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Joined: 11/20/16
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Question about the Osprey;
I know it will fly on one engine. My question is, how will it land on one engine, with a payload? I assume it won't hover, and needs to make some sort of running landing? And does that require the V-22 to carry fuel to reach a paved runway at all times (outside of war time)?
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:09 |
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Username Protected wrote: Always wanted to know how an Osprey will fair in a single engine mode...
Might get very interesting depending in which mode they are in. The engines are interconnected.
Wow... Incredible. That is some serious engineering. I have to learn about this bird.
Thanks
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:13 |
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Username Protected wrote: Compromises, sure, but Not denying anything you've pointed out- you're getting into the debate about the technical merits and their relative value, which is fine (and it matters a lot, don't get me wrong). I was only summarizing the technical issues. I've been retired for two years and most of my focus was on training the meat servos whose job it will be to wiggle the sticks in all these different flying machines.
Fair to the first point, I'm just an angry former Sierra guy seeing the big Navy writing on the wall wrt the community I was in. Good luck with the SNA/CONEs!
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I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things...
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:31 |
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Quote: ...training the meat servos whose job it will be to wiggle the sticks in all these different flying machines. Very funny. Made my day. Thanks!
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:33 |
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this thread makes me wonder what the debate was like within the royal navy in ~1898 after their worldview was shattered by Turbinia
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:55 |
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Username Protected wrote: Question about the Osprey;
I know it will fly on one engine. My question is, how will it land on one engine, with a payload? I assume it won't hover, and needs to make some sort of running landing? The blades are frangible (if need be) in that scenario. The engines can tilt in between helicopter and airplane mode. What angle and what airspeed, it depends.
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 12:57 |
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Joined: 09/05/09
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Username Protected wrote: Question about the Osprey;
I know it will fly on one engine. My question is, how will it land on one engine, with a payload? I assume it won't hover, and needs to make some sort of running landing? And does that require the V-22 to carry fuel to reach a paved runway at all times (outside of war time)? probably about as good as any twin, with OEI, with a payload. all gripes aside, it has 2x the range of a 60 Seahawk, and can fly at 2x the speed. so even if the payload was half the 60, it could make 2 trips for every one, and twice as far. and, it eliminates the helo-fixedwing-helo cycle previously required to get VIP or parts to the boat. that saves hours on each trip. it is a game changer even if it doesn't carry the same loads- it doesn't have to.
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 19 Nov 2020, 16:07 |
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Username Protected wrote: this thread makes me wonder what the debate was like within the royal navy in ~1898 after their worldview was shattered by Turbinia For every Turbinia there's 5 Pegasus/LCS/Zumwalts 
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I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things...
-Antoine de St.-Exupery
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 21 Nov 2020, 02:48 |
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Related to the COD article, do they have to shut down all fixed-wing recoveries when the V-22 lands and taxis or was that just for the test?
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 21 Nov 2020, 15:35 |
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Username Protected wrote: As a helo turned E2/C2 pilot, I'm waiting to see the non sea level standard day cargo throughput in something that's NOT in CVOA4.
It opens up things other than CVNs, but having to land in conversion mode really kills the capacity. So I reached back out to my buddy. He said the limiting factor is the size of the cube in the back, almost never the weight. It has a payload of 20,000 lbs. that’s more than double the C2. At high gross weights it uses what he termed “roll on and roll off” for launch and recovery, which requires a short roll (like 20’).
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Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy Posted: 21 Nov 2020, 16:05 |
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Joined: 04/04/14
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Username Protected wrote: As a helo turned E2/C2 pilot, I'm waiting to see the non sea level standard day cargo throughput in something that's NOT in CVOA4.
It opens up things other than CVNs, but having to land in conversion mode really kills the capacity. So I reached back out to my buddy. He said the limiting factor is the size of the cube in the back, almost never the weight. It has a payload of 20,000 lbs. that’s more than double the C2. At high gross weights it uses what he termed “roll on and roll off” for launch and recovery, which requires a short roll (like 20’).
We normally cubed out the COD as well.
The SH-60Bs could, per their spec, carry 6k on the hook.. You'd never have the power to do it unless you had no weapons, no armor, no search stores, a really light crewman and 600 pounds of gas though. Book specs, (aka NATOPS max limits) in my experience have been very optimistic, ideal day for helicopters. They will do what the performance charts say, which was very rarely even approaching MGW unless it was COLD. And then you better have 1.00 engines.
If they have certified the Ro/Ro for CVN ops, that would change things a bit. Getting any rotorcraft into ETL (Effective Translational Lift) dramatically reduces power required and greatly improves your fly away chances if you lose an engine. But then you still need the deck spotted for a FW recovery. I've done a rolling take off exactly ONCE from a CVN and that's when operational necessity was declared and I didn't have the power to hover. And I still had a couple thousand pounds of payload (per Sikorsky specs) to go, just didn't have the power with the DA that day. Transmission could handle the torque, weight was in limits. DA was too high to make the power, between engines being down in power and the head being less efficient at higher DA. Crunched out to like 104% torque to HOGE (Hover out of Ground Effect) which as soon as you slide off the deck of a CVN you are out of ground effect. Engines could only get me 96% that day at the 2.5 minute contingency power limit. (transmission can do 106% continuous, if oil temps stay in limits, so for maybe 3-4 minutes)
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