I know a very, very wealthy guy who has a Mirage; typical mission is Northern Idaho to Palo Alto, CA and he thinks it's perfect for the job. However, he refuses to tell me what it costs him to operate. Bad, bad sign...

The Matrix hits a marketing seam, but it isn't a very big seam. I can see someone buying one but only if the backseat passengers get most of the vote. The optional de-ice boots have to play part of the role in the buying decision.

I don't like the Avidyne system and that is their only choice for the Matrix. If they use the preferred G1000 system, they'll top their price point.

Someone was asking about the operating costs of the Matrix. IDK but the 2000 Mirage we had for 15 months was eating us alive. You can figure double the cost of an A36 to maintain. I bet even a Baron is cheaper to maintain than a Mirage. Of course the loan on the plane was 40% of the operating costs. This was for 1 year of operation.

Loan Costs $41,000.00
Maintenance $24,000.00
Insurance $10,000.00
Hanger $2,000.00
Gas $22,000.00

TOTAL $99,000.00

Cost/hour w loan $456.22
Cost/hour no loan $267.28

I really like the idea of a pressurized piston single but the reality is that it is expensive. I would hate to see what the operating cost on a pressurized twin are. I don't have any desire to own a Piper again.

I have a IO-550 in my V-tail... how can a Matrix haul all of that metal around with the same engine? I am boosting to 31.0 MP at 2700, so it can't be that there are that many more ponies. I like my V-tail and I am with Walter when he states his type... fast! That airframe needs the PT-6.

If money were no object and I wanted to haul the bro's and ho's, I would buy a DC-3 (or a Beech 18) and start the party. I had lunch today with a lot of folks at a SoCal airport cafe for whom money doesn't mean anything to... Harrison Ford showed up in his beautiful PT-19, Kenny G had his DeHavilland Beaver on floats, there was a Marchetti turbine, (the Marchetti jet conversion didn't show...), a Yak and few rotorheads (Chuck, the Red Bull helicopter aerobatics fellow and Gary, the head of LAPD copters). A lot of very fun exotic metal. Maybe the Matrix would get a look, but the guy with the King Air wasn't bragging. Real pilots know the truth.

I saw Harrison Ford at Atlantic Aviation in Santa Monica yesterday, his perfect DeHavilland Beaver sitting outside. What a life!

I know the owners of the jet Marchetti too, aviation is a small world.

David;

If you buy the twin at the right price and get one that's been properly maintained, it's not that much more. I'm not going to get that detailed, but we're pretty close to $400 an hour.

Kelly,

The Matrix and the Mirage both use the TN Lycoming IO540 @ 350 HP in current production. That explains how they haul the extra metal around with the preformance claimed.

FYI
The PT6 Meridian is what keeps Piper in business. It appears that the sales for the Mirage have almost stopped where the Matrix is the only piston product that is moving a little. Regardless, the dealers are jammed with product. They're listing the 2010s, and some of dealers haven't sold their '08 inventory yet!

This attitude bugs me.

What aviation needs are passionate people, people who take flying seriously. That's not neccessarily the same as folks with big checkbooks.

How often have we shaken our heads about somebody who bought more airplane than they could handle, and ended up in a twisted pile of scrap aluminum?

I agree. I don't think money=responsible.

This attitude bugs me.

What aviation needs are passionate people, people who take flying seriously. That's not neccessarily the same as folks with big checkbooks.

How often have we shaken our heads about somebody who bought more airplane than they could handle, and ended up in a twisted pile of scrap aluminum?

I found it a little tough to swallow that comment, too. You can fly your way to becoming a pilot. You cannot buy your way to becoming a pilot. If you could, then Thurman Munson would still be zipping around in his jet, right? Navion pilots have the reputation of buying more airplane than they can afford to fix. But Bonanza pilots have the reputation of buying more airplane than they know how to fly. There's some truth in both, but at the end of the day, we get to fly some truly magnificent machines, and with that privilege comes a certain responsibility. Not to behave like we own the pattern, and not to begrudge someone else in their "$99,000" airplane, even if they do fly a five mile final. Elsewise there's not much difference between us and those mucks down on the freeways jockeying for position, cutting one another off, and offering the one-finger salute to anyone who gets in "their" way.
Frankly, I think the price of admission to GA is why the airport ramps look the way they do, and I don't think that's such a good thing at all. Not for anyone.
Robin White

+1 I have flown with a lot of Military pilots over the past 20+ years who believed all "puddle-jumpers" were dangerous because of the lack of military or commercial aviation training of some of the pilots. Their desire would have been to share the pattern with only military and ex-military pilots, no matter haw much plane they could afford. I always tried to educate them better. We have all talent levels in GA, both rich and poor. To believe that increased cost will increase proficiency is rather ludicrous. The more a pilot of modest means can afford to fly, the better he will become, just like the well-off pilot.
OBTW, 1949 A35 for under $15K, another $10 or so invested and I'm flying several times a week. If the club cost much more than that to join, I'd be renting when I could afford it. And even though my entry fee was rather small, I feel qualified to share the pattern with anyone.

I can understand the frustrations about the comment and agree the entry price in theory has little to do with the quality out there.

My gripe comes from the person (usually in the less expensive plane unfortunately) that thinks that all patterns should be 3 mile legs each with each leg at 1.3 VSO. After they land the stay on the runway at 5 knots, etc.

The same people also want to pick up flight following on a busy center day and usually talk like this:

Pilot: Atlanta Center this is Cherokee N1AMSLO.

Center: N1AMSLO - Center

Yes, center, good afternoon, N1AMSLO is a Cherokee 160 converted from a Cherokee 140 for extra power currently cruising at 5500 ft about 23.7 Nautical on the 232 OCL radial just past the water treatment plant in Ocala heading down to Tampa with LAL as out next waypoint. We were wondering if you could give us flight following for the next 40 miles or so because there are two large MOAs here and I do want to be a fighter pilot today even though I have 160HP

Center: Call JAX approach on 118.75 - out of my area.

Pilot: OK, N1AMSLO to cal JAX approach on 118.75 to help with MOAs. Thank you for your time and have a great day - it is nice up here!

During this 3 minute radio request I am stuck in the clouds at 4k waiting for my climb that can only come from the controller that is talking to this person that is wasting everyone's time. I am of the opinion that EVERYONE that wants to talk to center should either have an instrument rating or have to pass a course related to how to talk on the radio. Most of the time the guys flying the cheaper stuff do not realize how much headache they are causing by getting in the way on the radio. It is this lack of understanding that gives the airlines power to take away our airspace.

We all need to look at how we use the system to make things go better for everyone no matter what we are flying. If I am giving pattern instruction in a C-152 and a Bravo wats to do a straight-in approach I will always yield to him without asking as a courtesy. They are spending 1500/hr and do not want to be in the air any longer than needed. I am up there with a student that wants to fly, so it is not a big deal to yield. Having the mentality of "I have the same rights so I am going to make the Bravo circle" just makes problems in the future.

On the flip side, I was going into Detroit Metro the other day and they gave me 21L via the river north then 5 mile final. It was a visual day and I was cleared to follow a Embraer RJ145 on final. I was in a hurry, so I left high cruise power in during the approach indicating about 185. Just as I was turning onto the 5 mile final the controller asked the Embraer to increase speed because a Baron was overtaking him on final. The pilot laughed and stated that SOP was 160 on final and he was not allowed to deviate per company policy. The controller then asked if the baby baron could slow down 25 knots to keep from overtaking the jet. I told him that it was my policy not to slow down for slower traffic, but I could make an exception this time. So, even the big boys are in the way sometimes

I agree Todd^

But I think they should institute more "radio skills" in the PPL. I hate when guys don't know how to use the radio.

Honestly, I wasn't very good at radio until I came across a CFI that was psycho about "speaking properly" on the radio. It truly changed my flying.

I don't know how to tell people they suck on the radio.

You can't. They have to be in a position to ask (as in a student taking instruction) or in a conversation.


I agree...most radio skills are poor. Here at MBO we have some of the world's worst, and a lot of them flying patterns of enormous proportion. I believe it is from a misunderstanding of what a "stabilized approach" should be. But the instructors are teaching them that.....