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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 16:47 
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Based off of my club in TX? The 10 hour thing seems to be standard with zero experience in a particular airframe. Insurance companies are the driving factor on the 10 hour thing. See if you can find some Cirrus owners out there in your area, get them to take you up and split the cost/time. You can log it and this will fit down your 10 hour requirement for the clubs insurance.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 18:56 
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Username Protected wrote:

My reaction as well, especially given my 500 plus hours of complex time in turbo aircraft. They said the standard is 8 hours but they usually see around 10 with pilots that have no TAA experience (which is me). I suspect that if I do well it will probably be closer to 8 hours but who knows.


Give yourself a big jump start by using a G1000 simulator before ever getting in the Cirrus. If you have the buttonology down pat that should cut your checkout time quite a bit.


Renting a cirrus while between planes is a good idea from my perspective. Seems like their rates are on the high end of the market but if it is convenient and works for you do it.

I completed the transition in 8 flight hours, that was the minimum the insurance company would allow. I used 2-3 of those hours to practice commercial maneuvers, get night current, and redo things that didn’t really need to be redone.

I spent an hour in the G1000 sim (pc app) like Jonathan recommends, that helped make the time in the plane more useful.

It is much easier to fly a Cirrus G5 than a (older) Bonanza primarily because of the nicely integrated avionics, fewer levers and knobs and more doors.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 19:22 
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Joined: 11/25/16
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How is everyone ruling out the slower plane without knowing how many miles he flies?


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 19:58 
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Username Protected wrote:
How is everyone ruling out the slower plane without knowing how many miles he flies?


He listed all of his usual trips in post 12.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 19:58 
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Joined: 02/25/16
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Location: Tupelo, MS
Aircraft: 182R
Cirrus. The cabin width is amazing. Those planes pretty much ruin the experience in almost any other piston single


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 20:26 
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Joined: 01/18/09
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How about telling them you’ll pay in 10 hour blocks - may get a decent discount that way. Take the Cirrus, the Arrow would be a looooong flight to Dallas.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 20:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
How is everyone ruling out the slower plane without knowing how many miles he flies?


He listed all of his usual trips in post 12.

Got it. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 21:57 
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Company: RE/MAX at the Lake
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Username Protected wrote:

Earl,
Any way to combine a few business trips with the checkout / instructor? A couple of long cross countries would go pretty far in the 10 hour requirement.

Kill two birds with one thousand dollar stone. :)


That's a great idea except for the down time when I'm away from the plane. I usually fly there in the morning and have meetings all day and fly back late in the day or some time the next. I suppose I'd have to pay for the time the CFI was sitting around which might kill the advantage. If I had a quick in and out with limited standby time that would be a great option.


My thought was I f you are flying to a destination for business then the plane cost is covered. Your only expense is the CFI sitting at the FBO waiting on you to return. Most of the CFI”s are building hours and earn $25 an hour. Bet they would be happy with 3 hours of Cirrus time in their log book and $250 extra from you for a 3 hour trip and hanging out at the FBO for 7 hours with a lunch trip in the middle.

Basically your CFI budget is $6,000 to build the 10 hours. 3 three hour trips plus a little pattern work and you got your needed 10 hours.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2019, 22:41 
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That seems like a pretty high hourly cost for the Cirrus. You appear to fly quite a bit and this is a business expense. Even if you aren't sure you want to eventually go the route of a Cirrus as your next aircraft, you might end up money ahead if you go to your local bank, get a loan and buy a lightly used FIKI Cirrus, depreciate it while you fly as a legitimate business expense, and when you are ready to make a decision, either keep the plane if you really liked it or sell it and buy your next bird. You've got up to 7 years of depreciation wherein you may be able to "charge" yourself quite a bit more than it actually costs to operate it as a pre-tax expense. Check with your accountant, but renting any such business asset is often a loosing proposition compared to owning it, depreciating it, then selling it.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 00:17 
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I have seen a Part 135 SR-22T with a $550/hour rate but never have seen that on the line for rental. Most of the rates here in Northern VA are around $235-$265/hr Dry for a newer SR-22T with FIKI. That is around $350/hr wet. Instructors are around $60-$75.

Granted, those owners may be pricing in the dents, dings, rips, tears, and filthiness their $500k-$750k shiny new steed is going to get sitting on the line. At least they can take the depreciation dependent upon how they structure it. I have flown an Anesthesiologists 182 and it was under a business and not an individual, so he likely got to use depreciation to offset the cost. ...but his hourly rate was reasonable and didn't seem like "go away" rates.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 00:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
10 hours to get checked out...say what? Is it a checkout or a milkout?

And 5 hours for an Arrow? give me a break.

Those numbers sound appropriate for a newly minted PP, not a 1000 hour IR bonanza pilot.

And you would need a type rating for the Vision jet to ATP standards; so that would be a legitimate large training expense in my opinion.


When I rented the Cirrus they required you complete the full CSIP course just like you would if you bought one. Took met about 15 of dual to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 09:53 
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For business travel, I would go with the 22T. I don't think the 10 hrs. dual is excessive for that airframe, even for an experienced pilot. It is complex (even though it doesn't count as such), slick, and if you fly it by the numbers is a beautiful plane. There are ways that the plane will bite you if you don't know how to fly it. That is where the transition training with a CSIP is, if not mandatory, highly recommended. Yes more-so that other piston singles. I have about 550 hours in them. Great planes, but it is not a PA28 or C182, that any Tom Dick or Sally can get in and "wing" it. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 10:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
10 hours to get checked out...say what? Is it a checkout or a milkout?

And 5 hours for an Arrow? give me a break.

Those numbers sound appropriate for a newly minted PP, not a 1000 hour IR bonanza pilot.

And you would need a type rating for the Vision jet to ATP standards; so that would be a legitimate large training expense in my opinion.


When I rented the Cirrus they required you complete the full CSIP course just like you would if you bought one. Took met about 15 of dual to do it.


I think if that was required the OP would have phrased it that way - he did phrase it as a checkout. But let's give you that one. Now what is your excuse for the 5 hours dual to transition from a Bonanza to an Arrow?

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus option while between planes
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 10:59 
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Spend some time in a simulator, Get the system down and be proficient with them.
Once you are ready, your checkout will be a lot less.
Make sure that they have enough planes so you do get stuck if they take one one out of the club, that you do not waste time in the checkout.
Happened to me a couple of times a while back. Really sucks when you spend whole bunch of money in the checkout and jump through all the loops...
540$ seems to be insanely expensive though... That is even higher than what I pay in France for a almost new Cirrus...

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