BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jul 2018, 22:00

Username Protected wrote:

What Charles said.

20 degrees of flaps and it was not very hard to hit the book numbers. The plane 'likes' to eat up more runway but will happily fly away around 70 knots. I never had any problem at BDU with it, though I mainly flew out of BJC.

I could usually beat the airlines, door to door, anywhere in the country (helped by Denvers Airport being slow when airlining about).

Not a short field plane by any stretch, but I can't recall ever not going somewhere b/c of runway length.

The cabin is significantly better than a Bonanza IMHO. I scratch my head when people say otherwise. Exception being pilot seat for people that are 6'3+. Depending on PA46 model, seat extension, etc, that can be snug.

The guy who bought my plane did a full panel and paint on it with the new garmin touchscreens. it is pretty fantastic. I will try and find some pics to post.

What I find interesting is the amount of negative comments I heard before buying a conti powered Malibu. That it climbs slow (false), that is is terrible in ice (false), that it rides poorly (exceptionally false, that is expensive to maintain (false), low useful load (false). It is not the sportiest plane in the world, but that is not its mission, nor is it what I would choose for local flights down in the weeds.

It has some quirks, like every plane, but the owner community was great. It really is the only plane you can upgrade to if you want to regularly do transcontinental travel in the flight levels without o2 and spending less than 50k per year all in.

Anthony,

I couldn’t agree with your post more. It’s a small jet size in the passenger cabin, my wife loves it. Handles 3000 foot runways easily with a full load. My useful load is over 1400 pounds on my 1984 Malibu. With these hot days of summer and +ISA temps I am burning just over 14 GPH at cruise. It does love the ground on takeoff and proper technique is important. It doesn’t leap off like a ground like a bonanza, it just drones along until you unstick it from the runway. The AC system is inadequate even when properly functioning in hot weather.
Kevin

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jul 2018, 22:24

John, saw your airplane in the KDYL washing station last weekend.. very nice!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jul 2018, 22:40

Username Protected wrote:

What I find interesting is the amount of negative comments I heard before buying a conti powered Malibu. That it climbs slow (false), that is is terrible in ice (false), that it rides poorly (exceptionally false, that is expensive to maintain (false), low useful load (false). It is not the sportiest plane in the world, but that is not its mission, nor is it what I would choose for local flights down in the weeds.

It has some quirks, like every plane, but the owner community was great. It really is the only plane you can upgrade to if you want to regularly do transcontinental travel in the flight levels without o2 and spending less than 50k per year all in.

Anthony, having been partner in a contibu for two years, I'd disagree with your first paragraph but agree with the second.

Context is key, but compared to the A55 and 421 I flew after it ... it definitely climbed slowly, didn't handle ice great (not terrible though), ride was a little wiggly, and it was pricey for sure. The low Ul is BS I agree - mostly a function of people looking at the load remaining after 120 gals ... ie 9 hours of fuel.

But yeah - it does a mission nothing else will do for anywhere close to the price!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 10:15

Username Protected wrote:

Unfortunately it does not have Beech quality build. I think they get a lot their accessories at Big Lots.

First, John, congrats on your upgrade. :thumbup:

This is the one thing keeping me from making the leap to a Mirage. I love the plane. Exactly what I'm looking for as an upgrade path. But...I read the logbooks of planes for sale and see parts being replaced at a prodigious rate, at least as compared to my experience operating the Bo.

And talk about SBs and ADs? Holy smokes. Why so many?

I know someone who just bought a '13 Mirage. Has less than 400 hours. He just spent $30K on his first annual, much if it, he says, complying with ADs. Yikes!!

Not typical? I'm not buying it, at least based on logbook entries, where stuff is being fixed/replaced to gear, fuel systems, etc. at rates that are just startling. Again, when measured by my experience with the Bo.

I get that it's a more complex aircraft, and so it's going to cost more to maintain. But that Piper quality just concerns me.

#spoiledbybeech

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 11:10

Username Protected wrote:

Unfortunately it does not have Beech quality build. I think they get a lot their accessories at Big Lots.

First, John, congrats on your upgrade. :thumbup:

This is the one thing keeping me from making the leap to a Mirage. I love the plane. Exactly what I'm looking for as an upgrade path. But...I read the logbooks of planes for sale and see parts being replaced at a prodigious rate, at least as compared to my experience operating the Bo.

And talk about SBs and ADs? Holy smokes. Why so many?

I know someone who just bought a '13 Mirage. Has less than 400 hours. He just spent $30K on his first annual, much if it, he says, complying with ADs. Yikes!!

Not typical? I'm not buying it, at least based on logbook entries, where stuff is being fixed/replaced to gear, fuel systems, etc. at rates that are just startling. Again, when measured by my experience with the Bo.

I get that it's a more complex aircraft, and so it's going to cost more to maintain. But that Piper quality just concerns me.

#spoiledbybeech

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 12:20

Username Protected wrote:

I am not sure why there was $30k of ad's to comply with in one year on a PA46.

Kevin

I don't know either. I can tell you he did take it to one of those high end Mirage shops you refer to.

But here's what I do know. I've just about spent $30K cumulatively on 7 Bo annuals, and that includes a top OH and new fuel bladders. My eyes aren't deceiving me when reviewing Mirage logbooks, and I've looked at dozens. It's rare to see Mirages with less than 1000 hours, many with 300-600 hours, that haven't had a bunch of parts replaced that based on the time should not need replacing. I don't claim to know the full story. But I've talked to many Mirage owners and they all say "yep, not a cheap plane to maintain".

Look, I'm not disparaging the plane. I want one. But I'm not yet over the incremental (potential) costs vs the incremental (real) benefits. I'm trying to get there. Just not there yet.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 12:52

Username Protected wrote:

I am not sure why there was $30k of ad's to comply with in one year on a PA46.

Kevin

I don't know either. I can tell you he did take it to one of those high end Mirage shops you refer to.

But here's what I do know. I've just about spent $30K cumulatively on 7 Bo annuals, and that includes a top OH and new fuel bladders. My eyes aren't deceiving me when reviewing Mirage logbooks, and I've looked at dozens. It's rare to see Mirages with less than 1000 hours, many with 300-600 hours, that haven't had a bunch of parts replaced that based on the time should not need replacing. I don't claim to know the full story. But I've talked to many Mirage owners and they all say "yep, not a cheap plane to maintain".

Look, I'm not disparaging the plane. I want one. But I'm not yet over the incremental (potential) costs vs the incremental (real) benefits. I'm trying to get there. Just not there yet.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 13:23

Username Protected wrote:

Look, I'm not disparaging the plane. I want one. But I'm not yet over the incremental (potential) costs vs the incremental (real) benefits. I'm trying to get there. Just not there yet.

It's a 58P minus one engine, but it still has the $20K windshield and the $10K boots and the $2k heated stall warning switch and the cylinders (and exhaust) that work hard and hot in thin air. And the heated prop boots and the ...

Put all that stuff on a Bo and it's gonna cost too. Malibu costs would make a 58P owner weep for joy and a Bo owner cry in pain.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 15:20

Congrats and nice plane. Love the panel. the G500 GTN750 is such an amazing combo.

the climb can be painful especially when hot out and heavy. But it makes up for it in the
decent.

The maintenance is worth it. The PA46 is the most economical travel plane there is. I have only canceled 2 trips out of tons for MX and never canceled for weather.

Mike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 15:23

Username Protected wrote:

Funny, I have had 2 clients sell Bonanzas and move into PA46 (Turbine) in the last 2 weeks and another happening soon. Sounds like a popular progression!

Tj

That's exactly what I did. Sold my B36TC to move into the Meridian.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 19:39

I’m happy to hear this PIREP as I’m under contract for a Mirage after flying an A36. Keep the stories coming!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2018, 23:49

Very nice

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2018, 00:45

Username Protected wrote:

I’m happy to hear this PIREP as I’m under contract for a Mirage after flying an A36. Keep the stories coming!

You’re going to love it ! :cheers:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2018, 07:34

Username Protected wrote:

Put all that stuff on a Bo and it's gonna cost too. Malibu costs would make a 58P owner weep for joy and a Bo owner cry in pain.

Of course. But it's not the extra systems/complexity that jumps out from the logbooks. Not even the engine. It's fuel pumps, gear parts, actuators, avionics failures, and other things, often being replaced within few hundred hours, either because it failed or it reached a disturbingly (at least to me) short TIS limit. It's what seems like a lot of SBs (recognize optional) and ADs getting CW. If it were just a matter of paying to maintain the extra stuff, such as the windshield, I'd have one by now. That's to be expected.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2018, 07:43

O course, "fuel pumps, gear parts, actuators, avionics failures, and other things" are not necessarily Piper quality issues.

Sold my A36 for PA46